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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle

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you know there's explanation for

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everything that occurred in the

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Rendlesham forest incident that doesn't

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involve aliens at all it was completely

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silent it comes right over our head it's

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so classic flying-saucer really standing

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in the clearing he turned over to my

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father and held his hand and he looked

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welcome to podcast UFO for our live show

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we're live every Wednesday at 8 p.m.

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Eastern Standard Time on the dark matter

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radio network please remember to visit

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the website podcast UFO calm for past

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episodes blogs and forums during the

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show feel free to participate live in

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our chat room and don't forget to like

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us on our very active Facebook page

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hello everyone this is Martin militia

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host and we have the one and only

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Alejandro Rojas he's back from vacation

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he's going to help us with the news

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coming right up and for our guests this

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evening for both hours we have Terry ray

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and he's an author and UFO investigator

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and we're gonna be talking about his new

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book it's called the complete story of

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the worldwide invasion of orange orbs

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and we're not talking just about Chinese

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lanterns I've had kind of a fascination

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with these for a while and I want to see

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what he has to say about that I want to

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thank everyone for their help and

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support and I thank every listener for

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listening if you'd like to subscribe to

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hear the whole full show go to our

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website podcast UFO calm and you'll see

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right on the sidebar all the information

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you need right there and I am ready to

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bring in Alejandro but first

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Alejandro did you hear that Stephen

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Bassett he called me I don't know if he

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called you and he said that disclosure

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has really happened did you hear that oh

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my goodness gracious meaning before he

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called me but well anyway April Fool's

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buddy you had everybody heard you get me

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and you fooled me there and you have the

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evidence on the air that you trickster

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and I'm not going to edit it out so

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man-boy when I get my hands on you I'm

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just gonna grab that cute little neck of

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yours and squeeze and squeeze and

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squeeze just like last time so tell me

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what's happening

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oh yeah there are some funny April

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Fool's ones out there oh we're gonna the

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bunk peoples April Fool's good

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don't fall for this people okay the

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first one and these are funny these guys

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these are funny guys it's Ryan sprog you

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know this character right yes I do

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yeah this tricky little guy he posted

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this on his Facebook just received word

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from the sci-fi channel that my series

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pilot Bigfoot alien Ghost Hunters has

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been approved production begins in

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October in North Carolina more info to

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follow

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he doesn't have he's got a very good

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keyword string going there for sure well

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I know and that's why I thought this was

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plausible

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you know Bigfoot alien ghost hunters I

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thought some TV show just wants to get

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it all in there people love it I thought

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oh you know and I come wearing get the

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name of this show and she's like you

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idiot you're so stupid not like that she

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was she was mean but she didn't say all

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those things but in any way she was just

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like that's obviously an April Fool's

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joke and I was like so he got me don't

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let him fool you

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but then I read another one on Facebook

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and this one didn't get me cuz I wasn't

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gonna let it happen again and this is

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John Greenwald of the black vault he

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wrote something about how the x-files

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and where I was going to talk about that

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we'll talk about that in a minute it's

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returning so the expo files the summer

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has got six epic so it's coming back

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this is no joke this is exciting

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you know Gillian Anderson David Duchovny

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there Fox Mulder and and Dana Scully

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we'll be back this summer they're going

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to do six episodes but he wrote here's

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the part that isn't true he wrote I they

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want me to be the third FBI agent and

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what's funny is most of people Ryan and

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John most of people that are commenting

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on these these things have posted

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them and they're like that's so cool

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congratulations

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so I wasn't the only one to get pulled

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oh that's good yeah that's not bad uh

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yeah I don't think you knew this at the

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I think it was two or three years ago I

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had a whole fake website I actually made

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the domain switch over to it if someone

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clicked on my website and I put a lot of

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work I put about 50 hours into the bogan

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Valley it was a lot of fun Leslie Cain

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even loved it so but anyway that was

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then I didn't have the energy or time to

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do it this year even Leslie Cain loved

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it did you believe that Wow

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she had a laugh that's cool that is

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that's so what's going on news so we

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already talked about the x-files I think

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that's a big deal because really when

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you look at it a lot of UFO researchers

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feel like the 90s there was a law and

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UFO research for a period of time there

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I felt that when when I got involved

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with this all of the documentaries and

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TV shows ended with the debunkers coming

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out and saying yeah but it's all just BS

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but you know things have changed and I

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think that's largely because of the

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x-files

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for six episodes I can't wait to see

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what new special effects and stuff

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they'll be using and even new thoughts

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and ideas that they didn't have before

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some new music would be nice because it

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the synthesized horns I think the

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technology has been improved as well

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yeah so we'll see so that was one of the

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stories I wanted to talk about but

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another one that I'm excited about Ben

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Hansen of the Syfy channel's Factor

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faked paranormal files of course that

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shows no longer being aired but that is

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what he's known in these circles for he

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did an analysis when Jimmy Kimmel had on

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Bill Clinton and asked him about UFOs

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right and it looks like you know when

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Obama was on Jimmy Kimmel recently the

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day before the LA Times her or LA Weekly

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had written about that Jimmy Kimmel has

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said he's going to ask of Obama about

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UFOs

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they said you know maybe this guy will

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analyze it and they posted about Ben

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Hanson doing this analysis

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well when Obama was on the show Jimmy

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Kimmel had kind of weren't Obama you

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know somebody they're gonna look into

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this and every movement and everything

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you say and analyze everything and

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alluding to Jimmy Kimmel possibly

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knowing about Ben Hansen doing this and

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sure enough Ben Hansen has done it again

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so he did this analysis it's 40 minutes

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long so I look watch the 40 minutes and

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I took notes and I summarized in a very

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long story because there was a lot of

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information essentially Ben's analysis

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and what he's saying is that he like for

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instance Obama's breathing faster when

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they're talking about UFOs that to him

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shows us some sort of nervousness also

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Obama joked the whole time you know was

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cracking jokes really good ones I

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thought he was funny he was funny and

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Ben says this is often used to kind of

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belittle the person asking questions to

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hopefully make them feel silly about

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their question so they move on to a

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different topic but he notes that Jimmy

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Kimmel was not dissuaded he kept asking

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questions and he feels that the the body

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language through most of this Obama was

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joking around but he feels at one moment

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Obama's demeanor changed and he says

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that it changed so much for instance he

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looked down to the ground and he thinks

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that you know screw his body language

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analysis that Obama seems to be a very

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honest person and he feels that he made

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an honest statement when Kimmel was

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really kind of prodding him about

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information Obama replied I can't reveal

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anything and because of various reasons

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like some of them I've mentioned Ben

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Hansen believes that he was telling the

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truth when he says that so Ben feels

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that either he's been told he can't know

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or talk about this topic or he knows

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something that he can't talk about he

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kind of made a funny and now

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he compared it to like a guy who would

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like to go out with his buddies and he

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can't because his wife wants him to

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clean the garage but he doesn't say oh

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my wife said this and that cuz you know

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he can't diss his wife in front of his

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buddies so he just says oh sorry guys I

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can't and he kind of gets sad he feels

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that that's kind of what Obama was

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demonstrating that same sort of

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sentiment or feeling so kind of

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interesting that it has been she feel

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that way and banned for the listener

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that doesn't know this ben is a former

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FBI agent and he was trained and that

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sort of thing I've talked to him about

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it on the show before it's not to say

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that we can say for sure but it

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certainly makes it certainly makes it

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interesting yeah it makes me think I was

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100% convinced Obama was joking through

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the whole thing I'm still there but it

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does make me think it makes me scratch

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my head and and been in this video is

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very thorough and professional so it's a

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great video I recommend that people take

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the 40 minutes to watch and I will you

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have that embedded I'm sure on open

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minds yep yep okay so that'll be a link

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in the show notes and we got one more

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story yeah sure I'll go with this one

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unfortunately it's another it's a

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debunking one I don't I like to put in

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UFO stories but we really didn't have a

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lot we do have some interesting ones

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from MUFON on the site that you can go

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check out there's like 10 stories I

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wanted to talk about this week but I do

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want to let people know about this one

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there is a video out there it's gotten

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very popular showing what looks like a

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UFO being hauled around by a truck and

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someone posted it and said this is a UFO

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being transported near area 51 not the

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case actually this video it looks like

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it's the same video that was posted

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years ago when they were transporting

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it's like the x-47b it's this high-tech

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cool looking drone they were

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transporting it across the country and

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and there were sightings of it and

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people taking pictures and so there are

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lots of news stories about this being a

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UFO it looks like that that same video

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just taken off of youtube and then

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reposted

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on YouTube so you could check that out

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but it looks like even if this is a new

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video it says the exact same thing if

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you look at the pictures so this is the

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x-47b which is really cool-looking

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but that's what it looks like you know

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has gotten because unfortunately this

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person took it reposted it and there's

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goofball new sites out there that are

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posting it all over the place and it's

271
00:11:31,389 --> 00:11:29,899
kind of frustrating when the news does

272
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that and they don't do their due

273
00:11:36,249 --> 00:11:33,529
diligence to find some history around

274
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these things so don't be fooled that

275
00:11:39,939 --> 00:11:37,940
gets the ball rolling on something like

276
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that you know we have time if you'd like

277
00:11:43,210 --> 00:11:41,180
to throw out another one of those

278
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stories I'm interested so go ahead if

279
00:11:47,410 --> 00:11:45,290
you would yeah this one got a lot of

280
00:11:51,069 --> 00:11:47,420
attention this was a florida witness who

281
00:11:54,430 --> 00:11:51,079
says that a silent UFO cloaked itself so

282
00:11:57,340 --> 00:11:54,440
this is a guy and these were events that

283
00:11:59,470 --> 00:11:57,350
happened in December of 2013 this was

284
00:12:01,900 --> 00:11:59,480
posted on MUFON so Roger Marsh you know

285
00:12:04,210 --> 00:12:01,910
he will post MUFON sighting reports on

286
00:12:05,710 --> 00:12:04,220
our site for us and summarize them this

287
00:12:09,370 --> 00:12:05,720
is a guy with his girlfriend and they

288
00:12:11,759 --> 00:12:09,380
say they saw a large boomerang shaped

289
00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:11,769
crap at night they said it was very

290
00:12:16,420 --> 00:12:14,720
distinct that they could see the lights

291
00:12:18,370 --> 00:12:16,430
that were going up and down this thing

292
00:12:20,579 --> 00:12:18,380
and not there were hard edges to it and

293
00:12:24,699 --> 00:12:20,589
that it kind of cooked itself and blue

294
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:24,709
very interesting account that is getting

295
00:12:29,379 --> 00:12:27,410
a lot of hits on the site so people

296
00:12:31,660 --> 00:12:29,389
might want to check that one out all

297
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right and again those links will be

298
00:12:35,290 --> 00:12:33,709
right in our show notes well thank you

299
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Alejandro welcome back hope you had a

300
00:12:41,019 --> 00:12:38,410
good vacation I had a great time and

301
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thank you for having me on the show on

302
00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:42,620
April Fool's Day I hope you're not

303
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:44,720
trying to imply something you give me

304
00:12:48,490 --> 00:12:46,850
something to think about all right thank

305
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:48,500
you and I'll talk to you next week and

306
00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:50,689
everyone hang in there for the quick

307
00:14:01,890 --> 00:12:52,370
music break and we'll be right back with

308
00:14:07,270 --> 00:14:04,960
alright that music was by Bruce Renier

309
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thanks Bruce for supplying us with some

310
00:14:13,270 --> 00:14:10,430
music and we have Terry ray on how are

311
00:14:14,110 --> 00:14:13,280
you Terry I'm fine Martin how are you

312
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:14,120
great

313
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welcome to the show thank you by the way

314
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:18,800
that music was putting me into a trance

315
00:14:28,930 --> 00:14:25,930
that's how I usually get my guests I

316
00:14:31,390 --> 00:14:28,940
play that background yeah hey thank you

317
00:14:32,950 --> 00:14:31,400
for sending the book along is this your

318
00:14:35,070 --> 00:14:32,960
first book by the way I never never

319
00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:35,080
asked you that question it's my first

320
00:14:42,610 --> 00:14:39,040
non-fiction book I am a novelist by

321
00:14:44,410 --> 00:14:42,620
profession ah that's why that's right

322
00:14:48,730 --> 00:14:44,420
thank you a second when did you get this

323
00:14:50,830 --> 00:14:48,740
I did yeah and I didn't yeah no I was

324
00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:50,840
gonna say I did notice this was very

325
00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:54,710
well written and we can talk about that

326
00:14:58,630 --> 00:14:57,410
first of all if you wouldn't mind and I

327
00:15:01,120 --> 00:14:58,640
didn't really mean to cut you off there

328
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:01,130
but we can talk about that a little bit

329
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:03,050
later but if you can tell the listening

330
00:15:10,660 --> 00:15:04,930
audience before we get into our topic

331
00:15:15,370 --> 00:15:10,670
just your background if you would well I

332
00:15:18,210 --> 00:15:15,380
grew up in a steel mill town in western

333
00:15:23,050 --> 00:15:18,220
Pennsylvania went to Grove City College

334
00:15:27,220 --> 00:15:23,060
Beek was a I went to I was a military

335
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:27,230
pilot Air Force until I was injured I

336
00:15:33,010 --> 00:15:30,050
spent about six months in a hospital and

337
00:15:36,220 --> 00:15:33,020
got out of the service as a disabled

338
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:36,230
veteran and I got a teaching degree a

339
00:15:40,540 --> 00:15:38,450
master's and I taught elementary

340
00:15:42,460 --> 00:15:40,550
education and then in the evening I went

341
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:42,470
to law school and I became a trial

342
00:15:49,170 --> 00:15:47,090
lawyer and then I decided to get an

343
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:49,180
honest job and became a law professor

344
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:53,450
Wow quite a colorful background you have

345
00:15:58,090 --> 00:15:55,610
there yeah I left out a bunch of stuff

346
00:16:02,590 --> 00:15:58,100
but those are the high points Wow

347
00:16:05,170 --> 00:16:02,600
interesting so while you were lager in

348
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:05,180
the Air Force did you have a fascination

349
00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:08,210
with UFOs all the way back then and if

350
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:13,630
so was it ever spoken about well I had

351
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:17,110
nation with UFOs since I was 10 years

352
00:16:26,130 --> 00:16:22,510
old a group of us were out in the late

353
00:16:29,490 --> 00:16:26,140
summer about about 10 10 11 of us

354
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:29,500
playing football in a big yard and we

355
00:16:34,830 --> 00:16:32,530
heard a loud roaring noise and a jet

356
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:34,840
came overhead very low altitude I'd say

357
00:16:39,270 --> 00:16:37,360
about 500 feet and I think it was

358
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:39,280
probably an f-18 least call him Sabre

359
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:43,450
jets but anyway and there was right he

360
00:16:49,260 --> 00:16:46,570
was right behind a very very

361
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:49,270
strange-looking craft there was nothing

362
00:16:55,620 --> 00:16:52,650
like we could ever make had no wings and

363
00:17:01,680 --> 00:16:55,630
they made a turn right over us

364
00:17:04,439 --> 00:17:01,690
and took off in another direction and we

365
00:17:06,179 --> 00:17:04,449
ran to my parents house and my mother

366
00:17:08,429 --> 00:17:06,189
was in the kitchen washing clothes and

367
00:17:10,410 --> 00:17:08,439
like 11 of us ran into the kitchen and

368
00:17:13,230 --> 00:17:10,420
we told her we had to call the army

369
00:17:16,140 --> 00:17:13,240
because we saw a flying saucer and she

370
00:17:19,290 --> 00:17:16,150
told us to get out oh no that was the

371
00:17:21,900 --> 00:17:19,300
beginning of my fascination with UFOs

372
00:17:25,620 --> 00:17:21,910
well before we move on I want to just

373
00:17:28,439 --> 00:17:25,630
mention something about that I hear that

374
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:28,449
so often about you know some type of

375
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:31,570
fighter pilot or or jets flying you know

376
00:17:37,260 --> 00:17:34,090
following and a friend of mine who lives

377
00:17:38,790 --> 00:17:37,270
in Canada when I actually told him I was

378
00:17:41,310 --> 00:17:38,800
doing a show on UFOs he told me a story

379
00:17:44,820 --> 00:17:41,320
about being out on the deck during a

380
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:44,830
party and seeing two fighter jets flying

381
00:17:51,060 --> 00:17:48,250
right behind this disc and and watch it

382
00:17:54,510 --> 00:17:51,070
take off now the question I have about

383
00:17:58,770 --> 00:17:54,520
this and it's just a wonder I would say

384
00:18:01,020 --> 00:17:58,780
is you never hear pilots really talking

385
00:18:07,530 --> 00:18:01,030
about being the person in the jet you

386
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:07,540
know do you think it's just the yeah if

387
00:18:13,740 --> 00:18:09,850
you're a military pilot you're forbidden

388
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:13,750
to do it there the government is very

389
00:18:21,810 --> 00:18:18,250
strict in that they do not allow any

390
00:18:23,910 --> 00:18:21,820
talk about UFOs well your new military

391
00:18:27,589 --> 00:18:23,920
service have you ever actually heard

392
00:18:35,009 --> 00:18:32,879
now I didn't but I have I've heard I

393
00:18:38,729 --> 00:18:35,019
heard talk with some of the older pilots

394
00:18:42,060 --> 00:18:38,739
you know about things they talk they you

395
00:18:44,299 --> 00:18:42,070
know they talk among themselves and they

396
00:18:46,529 --> 00:18:44,309
say well you know we you can't be

397
00:18:50,159 --> 00:18:46,539
talking about that kind of stuff you

398
00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:50,169
know so you're just you would you could

399
00:18:55,409 --> 00:18:53,529
would probably if you went public if

400
00:18:59,070 --> 00:18:55,419
you're a military pilot and went public

401
00:19:01,649 --> 00:18:59,080
about seeing something and you described

402
00:19:03,589 --> 00:19:01,659
it realistic there's UFO you you would

403
00:19:06,239 --> 00:19:03,599
have a very good chance of being

404
00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:06,249
dismissed from a service

405
00:19:10,379 --> 00:19:08,080
dishonorable discharge or something like

406
00:19:11,579 --> 00:19:10,389
that I don't think they'd go that far

407
00:19:14,459 --> 00:19:11,589
they don't want to get you're really

408
00:19:18,539 --> 00:19:14,469
aggravated yeah but you there would be

409
00:19:21,539 --> 00:19:18,549
some discipline involved commercial

410
00:19:25,709 --> 00:19:21,549
pilots they keep their mouths shut too

411
00:19:28,369 --> 00:19:25,719
because the government has done such a

412
00:19:35,419 --> 00:19:28,379
good job of making fools out of people

413
00:19:37,709 --> 00:19:35,429
whenever they report a UFO that you

414
00:19:42,479 --> 00:19:37,719
everybody actually even the average

415
00:19:43,529 --> 00:19:42,489
person is careful there let me tell you

416
00:19:59,310 --> 00:19:43,539
something really interesting

417
00:20:02,369 --> 00:19:59,320
only a profit of $100 to any any

418
00:20:06,329 --> 00:20:02,379
official body and that is because they

419
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:06,339
are afraid of the repercussions I also

420
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:08,080
really think because of my own

421
00:20:13,859 --> 00:20:11,440
experience that I didn't even know where

422
00:20:18,060 --> 00:20:13,869
to report something I never write never

423
00:20:21,659 --> 00:20:18,070
that's another problem yes and the

424
00:20:23,729 --> 00:20:21,669
places that this is something that we're

425
00:20:25,649 --> 00:20:23,739
gonna be getting into and move form we

426
00:20:27,989 --> 00:20:25,659
want to try to get real numbers of how

427
00:20:30,060 --> 00:20:27,999
many sightings

428
00:20:32,940 --> 00:20:30,070
how many UFOs are actually in the air

429
00:20:36,659 --> 00:20:32,950
and if let's say we in a month we have a

430
00:20:39,870 --> 00:20:36,669
thousand reports to MUFON well what we

431
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:39,880
need to know is how many people

432
00:20:48,140 --> 00:20:42,810
and I say there's a thousand people that

433
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:48,150
see UFOs in a month how many of those

434
00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:51,280
report them report the sighting anywhere

435
00:20:55,410 --> 00:20:52,000
mmm

436
00:20:58,170 --> 00:20:55,420
number one and if they do report where

437
00:21:00,720 --> 00:20:58,180
where do they report and I can tell you

438
00:21:02,420 --> 00:21:00,730
the primary places some of there has

439
00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:02,430
been some research done on this and

440
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:05,110
MUFON is not at the top of list it's way

441
00:21:11,490 --> 00:21:09,370
at the bottom number one is the police

442
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:11,500
that's what I call that's who I called

443
00:21:18,780 --> 00:21:16,570
right and number two is the media you

444
00:21:23,630 --> 00:21:18,790
call a radio station you call a TV

445
00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:23,640
station and third they dial some number

446
00:21:29,550 --> 00:21:27,430
some government number hmm now whatever

447
00:21:31,740 --> 00:21:29,560
they can find in the yellow pages you

448
00:21:35,610 --> 00:21:31,750
know some some government official and

449
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:35,620
all of those are worthless because I

450
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:38,290
mean police don't want to be bothered

451
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:43,210
with it right the mainstream media the

452
00:21:46,980 --> 00:21:45,010
only thing they'll use it for is their

453
00:21:49,890 --> 00:21:46,990
for their funny story at the end of the

454
00:21:52,740 --> 00:21:49,900
news right when they when they you know

455
00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:52,750
bring on you know the twilight zone

456
00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:55,840
music and they all laugh and talk about

457
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:58,090
this correctly right yeah and the

458
00:22:02,640 --> 00:21:58,720
government

459
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:02,650
you know as a policy don't acknowledge

460
00:22:10,590 --> 00:22:07,450
that there are UFOs so in very very few

461
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:10,600
people contact MUFON because even though

462
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:15,130
MUFON is becoming much more broadly

463
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:18,130
known because of I think a lot of it has

464
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:23,410
to do with hangar 51 their show that you

465
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:25,120
know people are becoming more aware move

466
00:22:31,530 --> 00:22:29,200
on but to even at this current moment I

467
00:22:33,170 --> 00:22:31,540
would say if you asked a hundred people

468
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:33,180
on the street if you've heard of MUFON

469
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:35,710
maybe five or ten would have heard of it

470
00:22:40,770 --> 00:22:38,050
if that I believe you're right yeah

471
00:22:44,550 --> 00:22:40,780
right so that's something we really have

472
00:22:46,140 --> 00:22:44,560
to find out because if let's say we get

473
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:46,150
a thousand reports and MUFON in one

474
00:22:49,290 --> 00:22:46,480
month

475
00:22:51,390 --> 00:22:49,300
how many sightings were there actually

476
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:51,400
for us to have gotten a thousand if you

477
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:53,530
understand what I'm saying right

478
00:22:59,520 --> 00:22:57,210
you know Jennifer if we're getting one

479
00:23:02,370 --> 00:22:59,530
hundredth or one thousandth of the

480
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:02,380
sightings reporter to move on the number

481
00:23:11,370 --> 00:23:08,490
of actual sightings is huge absolutely

482
00:23:14,180 --> 00:23:11,380
you can't even can't even imagine and

483
00:23:17,610 --> 00:23:14,190
you know what percentage of that is

484
00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:17,620
unexplainable is probably still low but

485
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:19,510
if you do the map it's probably higher

486
00:23:25,380 --> 00:23:21,840
than the people that are reporting them

487
00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:25,390
well you know I have an opinion on these

488
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:28,480
things that are so so so-called

489
00:23:36,140 --> 00:23:33,250
explainable one of the the in the

490
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:36,150
research I did for my book I read over

491
00:23:45,390 --> 00:23:40,720
2000 cases on orange orbs and I can tell

492
00:23:48,660 --> 00:23:45,400
you that the the vast majority of them

493
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:48,670
were dismissed saying that was an

494
00:23:57,090 --> 00:23:52,810
identified craft such as a Chinese

495
00:23:59,430 --> 00:23:57,100
lantern a weather balloon and that sort

496
00:24:03,090 --> 00:23:59,440
of thing and I know from the description

497
00:24:05,670 --> 00:24:03,100
it wasn't either one of those it was an

498
00:24:07,380 --> 00:24:05,680
orange or they are vastly different than

499
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:07,390
a weather balloon or a Chinese lantern

500
00:24:14,150 --> 00:24:10,090
their behavior is so a lot of these

501
00:24:18,090 --> 00:24:14,160
things that are supposedly explained

502
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:18,100
really are not explained they what is

503
00:24:26,490 --> 00:24:23,250
offered is merely a spurious explanation

504
00:24:30,150 --> 00:24:26,500
right I you know when you're mentioning

505
00:24:32,130 --> 00:24:30,160
this a lot of times when people claim to

506
00:24:34,380 --> 00:24:32,140
have the real reason for things

507
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:34,390
happening I was just shown an article

508
00:24:39,660 --> 00:24:36,450
now the article is old it goes back to

509
00:24:43,020 --> 00:24:39,670
2011 but there was a guy saying the

510
00:24:46,530 --> 00:24:43,030
Exeter incident Exeter is totally

511
00:24:48,930 --> 00:24:46,540
explained and I'm reading this article

512
00:24:51,270 --> 00:24:48,940
and they're talking about this this

513
00:24:54,420 --> 00:24:51,280
refueling plane and had strange lights

514
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:54,430
on it so so there's you answer and you

515
00:25:00,900 --> 00:24:57,610
know done deal and you know and and you

516
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:00,910
know this thing was was hovering over a

517
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:03,250
house for forever and the police saw it

518
00:25:07,170 --> 00:25:05,050
and it came back and you know on and on

519
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:07,180
it's it's really an amazing incident

520
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:09,760
the whole thing and but all the people

521
00:25:14,550 --> 00:25:11,770
that read that article and just say oh

522
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:14,560
there it is it's explained and that can

523
00:25:18,750 --> 00:25:16,450
happen many times in many ways in this

524
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:18,760
field bring it happens in my opinion

525
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:21,760
most of the time and when they when that

526
00:25:27,450 --> 00:25:23,890
it really bothers me that there's this

527
00:25:30,290 --> 00:25:27,460
common saying well they're probably five

528
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:30,300
percent of these cases are unexplained

529
00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:34,240
that's not really true a much larger

530
00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:37,360
percent are unexplained and they are

531
00:25:46,050 --> 00:25:41,110
explained with some rationale that makes

532
00:25:48,810 --> 00:25:46,060
no sense I think I think I've heard

533
00:25:50,970 --> 00:25:48,820
Stanton Friedman say something along

534
00:25:53,820 --> 00:25:50,980
those lines like he's you know he goes

535
00:25:56,010 --> 00:25:53,830
by he's a very statistical person so he

536
00:25:57,710 --> 00:25:56,020
he goes by statistics and saying you

537
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:57,720
know they said it's around here you know

538
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:01,120
that's right he's the founder Pittsburgh

539
00:26:07,230 --> 00:26:03,970
yeah oh no no he lives and he lives in

540
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:07,240
Edmonton Canada who am I thinking of

541
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:09,610
then well he probably lived there at one

542
00:26:18,810 --> 00:26:13,330
time you're not thinking of I think

543
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:18,820
you're Gordon Dan Gordon

544
00:26:26,090 --> 00:26:23,170
Stan Gordon he looked down there it

545
00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:26,100
could be yeah whatever

546
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:29,710
yes all right so let me just ask you

547
00:26:35,970 --> 00:26:32,410
this so you you became a lawyer at one

548
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:35,980
time and a professor and all this were

549
00:26:40,530 --> 00:26:39,310
you into the subject enough publicly at

550
00:26:47,490 --> 00:26:40,540
that point through all these different

551
00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:47,500
careers no okay I wasn't I was very much

552
00:26:54,620 --> 00:26:51,760
a believer in UFOs because of what I saw

553
00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:54,630
when I was 10 years old and also just

554
00:27:01,140 --> 00:26:57,840
through pure logic

555
00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:01,150
no it's to be it's more illogical to say

556
00:27:06,690 --> 00:27:05,110
there aren't there's no the only

557
00:27:11,270 --> 00:27:06,700
intelligent life is on earth that is

558
00:27:14,610 --> 00:27:11,280
more illogical than saying there are

559
00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:14,620
countless intelligent civilizations in

560
00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:17,440
this universe yeah that is far more

561
00:27:23,150 --> 00:27:20,310
rational I'm with you there

562
00:27:24,980 --> 00:27:23,160
that the arguments of course you've

563
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:24,990
heard him a million times like they

564
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:26,490
can't get there from here and there are

565
00:27:31,010 --> 00:27:29,130
vast differences but you know I've

566
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:31,020
argued many times and not to be

567
00:27:36,290 --> 00:27:34,170
redundant but you know they you get an

568
00:27:39,140 --> 00:27:36,300
advanced intelligence will eventually

569
00:27:41,090 --> 00:27:39,150
figure out something we have not well

570
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:41,100
you know what Einstein already figured

571
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:42,330
it out

572
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:45,330
because when he discovered that the

573
00:27:55,670 --> 00:27:48,480
space-time continuum is bendable mm-hmm

574
00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:55,680
and he he he speculated that we could

575
00:28:01,340 --> 00:27:58,770
create wormholes by bending space and

576
00:28:04,370 --> 00:28:01,350
these people say well you know if there

577
00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:04,380
are a million light years away there's

578
00:28:09,980 --> 00:28:05,910
no way they could ever get here that's

579
00:28:11,210 --> 00:28:09,990
true if it's linear travel hmm even if

580
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:11,220
they travel at the speed of light it

581
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:13,170
would take a million years but if they

582
00:28:18,020 --> 00:28:16,530
bend space right and through a wormhole

583
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:18,030
they could be here almost

584
00:28:24,020 --> 00:28:22,320
instantaneously so that really drives me

585
00:28:26,210 --> 00:28:24,030
crazy this thing like oh it would take

586
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:26,220
too long for them to get here if

587
00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:29,330
Einstein can can has the concept and

588
00:28:34,940 --> 00:28:32,310
worked out the numbers as to how you

589
00:28:38,690 --> 00:28:34,950
could deform a wormhole which is merely

590
00:28:41,390 --> 00:28:38,700
a black hole it's a it's a hole through

591
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:41,400
the space-time continuum with bent space

592
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:44,490
if he can figure that out I'm sure some

593
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:46,320
civilization it's a thousand years ahead

594
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:48,770
of us figured that a long time ago right

595
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:51,570
right and you know that and the other

596
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:53,130
thing is the energy there'd never have

597
00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:55,440
the energy and you know here's different

598
00:29:01,280 --> 00:28:58,250
arguments but you know that's a

599
00:29:03,020 --> 00:29:01,290
anthropomorphic you know that is putting

600
00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:03,030
something in human terms it doesn't

601
00:29:08,660 --> 00:29:05,910
belong there right because we're we're

602
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:08,670
measuring how much energy we can produce

603
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:10,650
mm-hmm and saying well we couldn't

604
00:29:15,740 --> 00:29:12,690
possibly produce that much energy you're

605
00:29:18,130 --> 00:29:15,750
right we couldn't but someone some far

606
00:29:21,260 --> 00:29:18,140
advanced civilization I'll bet can do it

607
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:21,270
yes I've had those I did a couple of

608
00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:23,370
debates and that was part of the debate

609
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:25,860
was um you know just the fact that we're

610
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:29,250
thinking in our terms today and right

611
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:32,880
not yes what these advanced so exact

612
00:29:37,220 --> 00:29:35,580
right that's exactly right so I think

613
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:37,230
we're getting along pretty good so far

614
00:29:43,220 --> 00:29:41,250
so far so anyone listening live you can

615
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:43,230
jump right over to our chat room just go

616
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:47,010
to podcast UFO comm and the left's sorry

617
00:29:50,030 --> 00:29:48,570
the right sidebar you'll see our chat

618
00:29:51,530 --> 00:29:50,040
room you can jump right in and ask our

619
00:29:53,270 --> 00:29:51,540
guests to question

620
00:29:59,270 --> 00:29:53,280
wonder if they're living they're not

621
00:30:03,920 --> 00:29:59,280
alive well we'll just have that for

622
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:03,930
another podcast yeah okay so let's let

623
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:07,530
let's talk about your your path and what

624
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:10,010
made you actually write this book

625
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:15,450
well I in 2013 that's just when I was

626
00:30:21,470 --> 00:30:19,200
becoming I was about to take my exam to

627
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:21,480
become field an investigator for MUFON

628
00:30:32,540 --> 00:30:27,810
I was in City Maryland in the last day

629
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:32,550
of July then was July 31st and I was

630
00:30:36,740 --> 00:30:34,290
sitting out in the balcony facing we

631
00:30:41,570 --> 00:30:36,750
arere on beach front those facing the

632
00:30:44,090 --> 00:30:41,580
Atlantic Ocean and I saw to my left I

633
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:44,100
was all by myself out there the three

634
00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:46,370
kids of my way for like in the room

635
00:30:53,330 --> 00:30:48,960
asleep and I wasn't allowed to watch TV

636
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:53,340
so I was banished to the patio anyway on

637
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:55,770
the balcony to my left which would be

638
00:31:03,370 --> 00:30:57,810
north since I'm facing the Atlantic

639
00:31:06,350 --> 00:31:03,380
Ocean to the north I saw an orange dot a

640
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:06,360
great distance way and it caught my

641
00:31:13,730 --> 00:31:10,410
attention because as a pilot that is not

642
00:31:17,210 --> 00:31:13,740
a color you see in the sky you see blue

643
00:31:19,790 --> 00:31:17,220
I mean you see reds greens whites you

644
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:19,800
know position lights in general or the

645
00:31:26,390 --> 00:31:23,250
you know the headlights of an aircraft

646
00:31:29,420 --> 00:31:26,400
but you do not see orange in the sky at

647
00:31:31,940 --> 00:31:29,430
night and so it caught my attention I

648
00:31:33,890 --> 00:31:31,950
just kept watching it and it kept

649
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:33,900
getting bigger and bigger and bigger

650
00:31:37,700 --> 00:31:36,240
until it was I would say it's about five

651
00:31:42,140 --> 00:31:37,710
miles away from me and it was about the

652
00:31:45,860 --> 00:31:42,150
size of a full moon and it was a an

653
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:45,870
orange sphere and it was very very

654
00:31:50,330 --> 00:31:46,320
beautiful

655
00:31:51,620 --> 00:31:50,340
for look like the Setting Sun and there

656
00:31:53,269 --> 00:31:51,630
were no lights on it

657
00:31:58,039 --> 00:31:53,279
everything was illuminated there was a

658
00:32:01,310 --> 00:31:58,049
sort of a soft pastel muted light coming

659
00:32:04,879 --> 00:32:01,320
from inside it's very pretty and it was

660
00:32:07,700 --> 00:32:04,889
about so maybe 500 feet off the ground

661
00:32:09,710 --> 00:32:07,710
and it was right along the water's edge

662
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:09,720
about five miles away and it stopped

663
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:13,529
there and for about a minute and then it

664
00:32:19,759 --> 00:32:15,919
headed out to sea

665
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:19,769
I'd say went out about 10 miles then

666
00:32:25,460 --> 00:32:21,840
stopped out there and then it went into

667
00:32:30,409 --> 00:32:25,470
about a 45 degree climb up to about

668
00:32:31,249 --> 00:32:30,419
10,000 feet leveled off flew about ten

669
00:32:34,159 --> 00:32:31,259
more seconds

670
00:32:36,590 --> 00:32:34,169
level flight and then headed south east

671
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:36,600
into a thunderstorm there was a

672
00:32:48,259 --> 00:32:46,460
was sort of speechless

673
00:32:51,470 --> 00:32:48,269
it sounds funny I was by myself but I

674
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:51,480
didn't want to think and so I wanted to

675
00:32:55,700 --> 00:32:53,250
run in and tell everybody then I thought

676
00:32:57,980 --> 00:32:55,710
what the repercussions would be if I ran

677
00:33:00,590 --> 00:32:57,990
and woke up three kids and wife to say I

678
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:00,600
just saw a flying saucer I don't think

679
00:33:05,330 --> 00:33:03,210
it would work out so I stayed there by

680
00:33:07,330 --> 00:33:05,340
the way I had binoculars so I was able

681
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:07,340
to get a close look at that this thing

682
00:33:13,940 --> 00:33:10,049
about ten minutes later I saw another

683
00:33:16,669 --> 00:33:13,950
orange dot same place this thing went

684
00:33:20,889 --> 00:33:16,679
through the precise of the same flight

685
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:20,899
pattern and in all I saw eight of them

686
00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:23,370
and they all did the same exact flight

687
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:27,120
path exactly it was to be like what if I

688
00:33:32,180 --> 00:33:29,850
was given a flight plan in a military

689
00:33:34,850 --> 00:33:32,190
jet you know and and I was supposed to

690
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:34,860
fly certain headings for a certain

691
00:33:39,399 --> 00:33:36,570
period of time that's exactly what that

692
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:39,409
was so that was not a Chinese lantern

693
00:33:45,919 --> 00:33:42,090
they don't fly flight patterns they blow

694
00:33:50,389 --> 00:33:45,929
with the wind it was not a balloon and

695
00:33:53,299 --> 00:33:50,399
so and it was in my opinion I'm having

696
00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:53,309
been a pilot I I mean I try to keep up

697
00:33:59,860 --> 00:33:57,120
with aircraft development I'm quite sure

698
00:34:03,230 --> 00:33:59,870
we have nothing like that

699
00:34:06,919 --> 00:34:03,240
so I have no doubt in my mind that that

700
00:34:08,149 --> 00:34:06,929
was something not made on earth now let

701
00:34:10,339 --> 00:34:08,159
me ask you this while you were sitting

702
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:10,349
there in you're looking out the balcony

703
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:12,450
I read your book but I wanted you to

704
00:34:16,879 --> 00:34:15,119
tell your story yeah I read that part of

705
00:34:19,030 --> 00:34:16,889
it and you went and got your popcorn and

706
00:34:25,720 --> 00:34:19,040
all that right and they're saying

707
00:34:31,490 --> 00:34:28,730
wasn't you know what there was a camera

708
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:31,500
in there somewhere but the room was

709
00:34:41,690 --> 00:34:38,210
completely dark and do you have kids

710
00:34:44,690 --> 00:34:41,700
yeah I have I have a grown son yes yeah

711
00:34:46,819 --> 00:34:44,700
well you know in your wife sleeping in

712
00:34:51,139 --> 00:34:46,829
room with all these kids I got it if you

713
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:51,149
flip on understand you just don't do it

714
00:34:59,109 --> 00:34:54,960
so I felt my way back out of the dark

715
00:35:02,120 --> 00:34:59,119
room out onto the balcony again so

716
00:35:09,230 --> 00:35:02,130
that's why I didn't have a camera okay

717
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:09,240
what it's called marital peace yeah okay

718
00:35:19,849 --> 00:35:13,770
and so yeah go ahead yeah I I dutifully

719
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:19,859
filed my report with MUFON for Maryland

720
00:35:27,740 --> 00:35:23,970
and I got a call from the field

721
00:35:30,050 --> 00:35:27,750
investigator and we didn't talk for very

722
00:35:33,020 --> 00:35:30,060
long he said he told me it was the best

723
00:35:36,140 --> 00:35:33,030
report he's ever seen and then I told

724
00:35:41,059 --> 00:35:36,150
him I was already ready to take my field

725
00:35:43,970 --> 00:35:41,069
investigator exam so he said oh so he

726
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:43,980
already knew I had some training but

727
00:35:51,890 --> 00:35:49,770
anyway I i talked that when I got back

728
00:35:54,589 --> 00:35:51,900
to Pennsylvania I'm from Pennsylvania in

729
00:35:57,530 --> 00:35:54,599
Pennsylvania MUFON first meeting I went

730
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:57,540
to I was all excited about this and I

731
00:36:04,370 --> 00:35:59,760
was telling this group of people at my

732
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:04,380
table about seeing these orange orbs and

733
00:36:07,819 --> 00:36:06,480
they all start laughing and they they

734
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:07,829
said don't waste your time they're

735
00:36:12,839 --> 00:36:12,240
Chinese lanterns hmm and at that point I

736
00:36:19,799 --> 00:36:12,849
was

737
00:36:23,309 --> 00:36:19,809
yes or field investigators and I found

738
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:23,319
out pretty quickly that that was the

739
00:36:27,839 --> 00:36:25,690
ubiquitous opinion throughout MUFON

740
00:36:31,769 --> 00:36:27,849
these things are not taken seriously

741
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:31,779
they have been somebody decided they

742
00:36:37,410 --> 00:36:35,170
were Chinese lanterns and no matter what

743
00:36:39,989 --> 00:36:37,420
came along with an orange orb case the

744
00:36:44,999 --> 00:36:39,999
explanation was identified as a Chinese

745
00:36:48,779 --> 00:36:45,009
lantern and maybe you could tell that to

746
00:36:50,339 --> 00:36:48,789
someone who hasn't seen these things but

747
00:36:52,049 --> 00:36:50,349
you can't tell anybody

748
00:36:55,019 --> 00:36:52,059
there's there's nobody it's ever seen an

749
00:36:58,259 --> 00:36:55,029
orange orb there could ever be convinced

750
00:37:02,069 --> 00:36:58,269
it was a Chinese lantern it's impossible

751
00:37:05,339 --> 00:37:02,079
it couldn't be and of course this kind

752
00:37:08,969 --> 00:37:05,349
of aggravated me and because I was all

753
00:37:10,799 --> 00:37:08,979
proud of my find so I decided well you

754
00:37:11,940 --> 00:37:10,809
know I'm gonna find out what these are

755
00:37:13,650 --> 00:37:11,950
and I'm gonna come back and tell

756
00:37:16,380 --> 00:37:13,660
everybody and I thought it would take me

757
00:37:21,569 --> 00:37:16,390
a couple of weeks and it took me an

758
00:37:29,660 --> 00:37:21,579
entire year research I read over 2,000

759
00:37:34,410 --> 00:37:32,579
excuse me and the entire story just as

760
00:37:36,749 --> 00:37:34,420
the book says the complete story I

761
00:37:41,519 --> 00:37:36,759
pieced it all together as the what's

762
00:37:46,700 --> 00:37:41,529
going on I went I went back to the 1890s

763
00:37:52,289 --> 00:37:46,710
all the way up to 2013 reading cases and

764
00:37:54,529 --> 00:37:52,299
I put I put it all together and that's

765
00:37:59,009 --> 00:37:54,539
how the book came about

766
00:38:00,959 --> 00:37:59,019
okay now had you done any research or

767
00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:00,969
looked into this topic before that

768
00:38:09,150 --> 00:38:04,960
sighting you had no I did not I you know

769
00:38:10,529 --> 00:38:09,160
before I was in MUFON I remember from

770
00:38:13,259 --> 00:38:10,539
time to time I've read in the paper

771
00:38:15,839 --> 00:38:13,269
about these orange balls of light or

772
00:38:21,319 --> 00:38:15,849
sighted and then you get to the end the

773
00:38:24,089 --> 00:38:21,329
article and they say that NASA or

774
00:38:26,670 --> 00:38:24,099
whoever the official body is says these

775
00:38:29,220 --> 00:38:26,680
are things merely are Chinese lanterns

776
00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:29,230
mmm-hmm that's all I knew about it so

777
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:33,430
for all I knew if you see back then if

778
00:38:39,420 --> 00:38:36,160
you saw a orange ball of light it was

779
00:38:41,970 --> 00:38:39,430
Chinese lantern but once I saw these

780
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:41,980
things I knew that was a ridiculous

781
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:46,090
explanation now sometimes you hear about

782
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:48,400
these well one of the things you hear

783
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:50,290
often about these is something you said

784
00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:52,450
earlier is that it was beautiful a lot

785
00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:54,510
of people are you hear people say that

786
00:39:01,980 --> 00:38:59,680
the light was an unusual light not a

787
00:39:04,170 --> 00:39:01,990
typical light that would more of a light

788
00:39:06,540 --> 00:39:04,180
that would glow than shine or something

789
00:39:09,150 --> 00:39:06,550
like along the islands it's actually I

790
00:39:11,220 --> 00:39:09,160
would describe it as mesmerizing you

791
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:11,230
really can't take your eyes off of it

792
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:13,450
when you see it and and then the other

793
00:39:17,850 --> 00:39:15,450
thing that puzzles me is for instance

794
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:17,860
let's talk quickly about the Phoenix

795
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:20,250
lights there at that comment was made

796
00:39:27,420 --> 00:39:24,130
also from I think dr. Lynn two-tire

797
00:39:30,210 --> 00:39:27,430
someone said something about their they

798
00:39:32,430 --> 00:39:30,220
were mesmerizing or beautiful but some

799
00:39:36,450 --> 00:39:32,440
people were saying that you could see

800
00:39:38,250 --> 00:39:36,460
through the craft like to the other side

801
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:38,260
and some people said that it was like

802
00:39:44,670 --> 00:39:41,530
waves and a lot of times you do hear

803
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:44,680
about triangular formation of these orbs

804
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:47,680
and sometimes people say that you can

805
00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:49,810
see through them sometimes people say

806
00:39:55,620 --> 00:39:52,960
they block out the light any comments on

807
00:39:57,780 --> 00:39:55,630
that yeah I don't know what to mean by

808
00:39:59,790 --> 00:39:57,790
they block out the light I'm sorry

809
00:40:03,090 --> 00:39:59,800
starlight oh yeah

810
00:40:07,020 --> 00:40:03,100
well yeah you you can't they they are

811
00:40:09,780 --> 00:40:07,030
somewhat translucent yeah you do you can

812
00:40:14,070 --> 00:40:09,790
see you can see something inside and a

813
00:40:19,770 --> 00:40:14,080
lot of people see something that's kind

814
00:40:21,810 --> 00:40:19,780
of a dark spot in the middle and I you

815
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:21,820
know once I did all my research I I

816
00:40:31,460 --> 00:40:27,490
found out what that was and but the

817
00:40:36,450 --> 00:40:31,470
Phoenix lights were were orange and

818
00:40:37,980 --> 00:40:36,460
orange orbs they want to be seen that's

819
00:40:40,410 --> 00:40:37,990
what you if you want to understand

820
00:40:44,730 --> 00:40:40,420
orange orbs orange orbs one

821
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:44,740
to be seen they have picked a color in a

822
00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:48,370
shape that they know people are going to

823
00:40:53,130 --> 00:40:50,800
look at because it's an unusual color in

824
00:40:57,450 --> 00:40:53,140
the nighttime sky and then they do

825
00:41:02,760 --> 00:40:57,460
things to entertain people they form in

826
00:41:04,980 --> 00:41:02,770
they in the cases I've read they I've

827
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:04,990
read descriptions where they get into a

828
00:41:10,500 --> 00:41:06,970
square then they quickly shift they're

829
00:41:14,250 --> 00:41:10,510
in a triangle then they get arranged

830
00:41:16,710 --> 00:41:14,260
themselves in a circle and they almost

831
00:41:18,990 --> 00:41:16,720
look a lot of people say it almost looks

832
00:41:22,710 --> 00:41:19,000
like they're dancing together they do

833
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:22,720
funny little things and they are known

834
00:41:37,620 --> 00:41:31,740
they will blink out and all of a sudden

835
00:41:40,620 --> 00:41:37,630
I'd be the Big Dipper you know and they

836
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:40,630
they are up there to be seen that that's

837
00:41:45,150 --> 00:41:43,090
what you have to understand and that was

838
00:41:47,670 --> 00:41:45,160
that's why orange orbs are much

839
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:47,680
different than anything that's ever come

840
00:41:56,900 --> 00:41:51,810
into our skies before because prior to

841
00:42:00,260 --> 00:41:56,910
the influx of these orange orbs seeing a

842
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:00,270
flying saucer was a very very rare thing

843
00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:04,210
you know and usually it was some sort of

844
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:06,910
blurry picture hang on just a moment we

845
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:09,250
have an incoming call let me know make

846
00:42:16,830 --> 00:42:11,250
sure this is about this show hang on

847
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:16,840
yes you're on the air at podcast UFO Who

848
00:42:23,460 --> 00:42:20,770
am I speaking with they're gone

849
00:42:25,590 --> 00:42:23,470
okay it was a New York City number hey

850
00:42:28,020 --> 00:42:25,600
since I already interrupted you let me

851
00:42:30,420 --> 00:42:28,030
ask you a couple message couple

852
00:42:32,460 --> 00:42:30,430
questions up on the message board one

853
00:42:36,990 --> 00:42:32,470
was a question I was gonna ask you also

854
00:42:39,210 --> 00:42:37,000
but have you concluded what the

855
00:42:43,050 --> 00:42:39,220
differences are between the red and

856
00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:43,060
orange orbs or are they the same no

857
00:42:50,660 --> 00:42:46,510
they're not the same the orange orbs are

858
00:42:54,180 --> 00:42:50,670
they are the big ones they they can be

859
00:43:00,270 --> 00:42:54,190
the diameter of a football field

860
00:43:02,430 --> 00:43:00,280
the red orbs are they are what I'd call

861
00:43:04,410 --> 00:43:02,440
or drones they're small things they're

862
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:04,420
usually about the size though of a

863
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:06,490
softball up to about the size of a

864
00:43:15,650 --> 00:43:11,770
basketball and these things come up

865
00:43:18,450 --> 00:43:15,660
they're very up close and personal they

866
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:18,460
they come right at it come right up to a

867
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:21,760
person and there are a few inches from a

868
00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:24,880
person's face they move all around their

869
00:43:31,950 --> 00:43:27,280
body it's almost as though they're

870
00:43:38,970 --> 00:43:31,960
scanning them and then they they skip

871
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:38,980
away and they saw a red one red orb when

872
00:43:47,250 --> 00:43:42,970
I was coming back from Cleveland Ohio I

873
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:47,260
was on yo hyoe Turnpike and I don't know

874
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:48,730
how far you've gotten in a book but

875
00:43:55,770 --> 00:43:50,890
there is an underwater orange orb base

876
00:44:00,480 --> 00:43:55,780
in Lake Erie and I saw coming from Lake

877
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:00,490
Erie this red thing that moved it went

878
00:44:06,799 --> 00:44:02,650
from Horizon to Horizon in about two

879
00:44:11,130 --> 00:44:06,809
seconds and it was one of these little

880
00:44:14,849 --> 00:44:11,140
red drones they're they're they're orbs

881
00:44:18,390 --> 00:44:14,859
the red spheres but there's there's

882
00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:18,400
nobody in there there I think they're

883
00:44:25,950 --> 00:44:22,569
being manipulated from another place

884
00:44:29,849 --> 00:44:25,960
orange orbs have something in there

885
00:44:32,309 --> 00:44:29,859
there are vehicles inside of them mm-hmm

886
00:44:35,220 --> 00:44:32,319
so that's the difference there are two

887
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:35,230
completely different things okay I'm

888
00:44:39,839 --> 00:44:37,450
gonna ask you why you think that but

889
00:44:43,260 --> 00:44:39,849
first of all I didn't want to go too far

890
00:44:45,390 --> 00:44:43,270
because a question up there and one I

891
00:44:48,990 --> 00:44:45,400
had in mind too is can you explain the

892
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:49,000
dark spot yeah the dark spot is the

893
00:44:59,309 --> 00:44:57,490
vehicle the the orb is not the UFO there

894
00:45:04,799 --> 00:44:59,319
have been a number of people that have

895
00:45:07,650 --> 00:45:04,809
seen what it what the orange orb is is a

896
00:45:12,059 --> 00:45:07,660
cloak that the vehicle

897
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:12,069
projects around itself and there have

898
00:45:16,980 --> 00:45:13,210
been a number of people that have

899
00:45:19,980 --> 00:45:16,990
watched this happen they see some sort

900
00:45:22,770 --> 00:45:19,990
of craft you know they sit in the sky

901
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:22,780
it's somewhat often described as

902
00:45:30,390 --> 00:45:27,510
metallic looking and then this discharge

903
00:45:32,370 --> 00:45:30,400
which some people describe as a plasma

904
00:45:35,069 --> 00:45:32,380
looking thing comes out at the bottom of

905
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:35,079
the craft it comes down around a craft

906
00:45:42,329 --> 00:45:38,410
up around it and envelops the craft and

907
00:45:47,370 --> 00:45:42,339
forms a sphere around it so what you're

908
00:45:51,150 --> 00:45:47,380
seeing the dark spot is a vehicle you

909
00:45:53,609 --> 00:45:51,160
know a space vehicle so the or all the

910
00:45:56,279 --> 00:45:53,619
orange part all that is is a cloak

911
00:45:59,039 --> 00:45:56,289
around a vehicle and another interesting

912
00:46:02,250 --> 00:45:59,049
thing is I have a picture of this by the

913
00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:02,260
way that case I investigated there can

914
00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:05,520
be any number of crafts inside an orb I

915
00:46:12,420 --> 00:46:08,079
have a picture of one with about 12

916
00:46:17,130 --> 00:46:12,430
crafts inside of it and and how do you

917
00:46:19,380 --> 00:46:17,140
see that there very this is a very good

918
00:46:22,260 --> 00:46:19,390
picture of it I mean you can see it

919
00:46:25,740 --> 00:46:22,270
through the orange membrane you can see

920
00:46:30,299 --> 00:46:25,750
the various vehicles in there really

921
00:46:33,660 --> 00:46:30,309
yeah and here's how orbs are often

922
00:46:35,730 --> 00:46:33,670
described as splitting into two and then

923
00:46:38,039 --> 00:46:35,740
merging back into one or splitting into

924
00:46:41,490 --> 00:46:38,049
four yeah I can so I can tell you how

925
00:46:45,779 --> 00:46:41,500
that works with the let's say there's

926
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:45,789
five crafts five vehicles inside this

927
00:46:52,349 --> 00:46:49,690
orb okay and one of the vehicles is

928
00:46:56,460 --> 00:46:52,359
going to leave what it does is it cloaks

929
00:46:57,690 --> 00:46:56,470
itself and then leaves that orb are you

930
00:47:01,680 --> 00:46:57,700
with me mm-hmm

931
00:47:03,779 --> 00:47:01,690
and so it looks like there is an orb

932
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:03,789
splitting but all it is is a cloaked

933
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:07,359
vehicle leaving that orb being cloaked

934
00:47:13,730 --> 00:47:11,680
itself are you with me okay that's how

935
00:47:17,940 --> 00:47:13,740
it works

936
00:47:20,579 --> 00:47:17,950
and and if it goes back in it can go

937
00:47:21,450 --> 00:47:20,589
back at the so this now you have a large

938
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:21,460
herb

939
00:47:26,730 --> 00:47:24,130
small war beside it they can make this

940
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:26,740
orb any size by the way some of them

941
00:47:32,220 --> 00:47:29,440
they blow them up to be huge some of

942
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:32,230
them are just barely enough to cover the

943
00:47:37,260 --> 00:47:35,440
craft so there are different sizes to

944
00:47:40,349 --> 00:47:37,270
these things obviously if you have if

945
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:40,359
there's like 1012 vehicles inside this

946
00:47:47,730 --> 00:47:43,930
it's a pretty big pumped up orb you know

947
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:47,740
it's a large sized orb but that's that's

948
00:47:55,500 --> 00:47:50,290
what's going on they what if a vehicle

949
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:55,510
leaves the main orb it forms its own war

950
00:48:01,980 --> 00:47:57,130
before it leaves so it looks like

951
00:48:04,620 --> 00:48:01,990
there's two words dot alright well how

952
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:04,630
are you just just a question for you and

953
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:07,119
how are you you sound very definitive

954
00:48:16,500 --> 00:48:11,890
first of all yeah I went crazy for a

955
00:48:20,430 --> 00:48:16,510
year okay it was a total obsession with

956
00:48:21,420 --> 00:48:20,440
me I just I've read over 2,000 cases you

957
00:48:24,750 --> 00:48:21,430
know how long that takes

958
00:48:27,390 --> 00:48:24,760
yeah and I don't think anyone else ever

959
00:48:29,910 --> 00:48:27,400
did this before now before we get off of

960
00:48:33,329 --> 00:48:29,920
that right there how where did you were

961
00:48:35,730 --> 00:48:33,339
all these MUFON cases yeah are the files

962
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:35,740
readily available to anyone or just

963
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:38,970
because you're a field investigator

964
00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:41,920
because I'm a field investigator I can

965
00:48:48,270 --> 00:48:45,760
get everything you know I have my own ID

966
00:48:54,810 --> 00:48:48,280
number right I get into the the private

967
00:49:00,260 --> 00:48:54,820
files and I'm able to extract the field

968
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:00,270
investigators report all the excuse me

969
00:49:07,500 --> 00:49:03,130
all the documents are attached all the

970
00:49:10,050 --> 00:49:07,510
photos videos I can get all that so the

971
00:49:12,420 --> 00:49:10,060
average person couldn't do that the

972
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:12,430
average field investigator could do that

973
00:49:17,940 --> 00:49:14,170
but that's generally not what field

974
00:49:21,329 --> 00:49:17,950
investigators do they sort of our sort

975
00:49:24,750 --> 00:49:21,339
of one and done you know what what I did

976
00:49:29,130 --> 00:49:24,760
is is something that I'm trying to

977
00:49:33,260 --> 00:49:29,140
encourage in MUFON we have I don't know

978
00:49:35,380 --> 00:49:33,270
how maybe a million cases or more but

979
00:49:38,589 --> 00:49:35,390
almost nobody connects the

980
00:49:41,109 --> 00:49:38,599
dots do you understand what I'm saying

981
00:49:44,410 --> 00:49:41,119
they're just you know it's a sky full of

982
00:49:46,390 --> 00:49:44,420
stars no one's drawing the lines and

983
00:49:50,410 --> 00:49:46,400
these things and what I did that is

984
00:49:52,420 --> 00:49:50,420
unique in UFO research is that I

985
00:49:55,059 --> 00:49:52,430
connected all the dots with the orange

986
00:49:57,690 --> 00:49:55,069
orbs to form a complete story of it

987
00:49:59,079 --> 00:49:57,700
I think we need to do more of that

988
00:50:03,759 --> 00:49:59,089
mm-hmm

989
00:50:05,140 --> 00:50:03,769
it gives you a context now you you were

990
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:05,150
saying that the orange orbs are

991
00:50:10,990 --> 00:50:07,490
generally larger but I have heard people

992
00:50:12,819 --> 00:50:11,000
talk maybe they've got the colors wrong

993
00:50:17,079 --> 00:50:12,829
or whatever but people have talked about

994
00:50:19,839 --> 00:50:17,089
a small or in a house or yeah in a

995
00:50:22,870 --> 00:50:19,849
backyard right I think there's this

996
00:50:24,700 --> 00:50:22,880
quite a story I think about some little

997
00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:24,710
girl in the backyard and in Horeb maybe

998
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:28,400
she was hurt or something are you

999
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:33,170
familiar with that one well I'd have to

1000
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:35,119
get the details I've read so many of

1001
00:50:42,819 --> 00:50:40,970
these I'm sure I read it how how when

1002
00:50:45,579 --> 00:50:42,829
you have been talking about you know the

1003
00:50:49,690 --> 00:50:45,589
vehicles inside the the orbs how is that

1004
00:50:51,730 --> 00:50:49,700
being received by other people other

1005
00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:51,740
investigator how's your book you know

1006
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:55,250
what the average the average person on

1007
00:51:02,950 --> 00:50:56,960
the street I think is more open-minded

1008
00:51:06,069 --> 00:51:02,960
about it then the the MUFON is because

1009
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:06,079
MUFON has been around a long long time

1010
00:51:11,799 --> 00:51:09,890
you know since the 1960s and you know

1011
00:51:13,359 --> 00:51:11,809
there's sort of like any organization

1012
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:13,369
efforts been around for a long time

1013
00:51:17,559 --> 00:51:16,970
I think they develop groupthink on

1014
00:51:19,859 --> 00:51:17,569
things

1015
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:19,869
mm-hm and you know there's sort of this

1016
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:25,130
understanding among you know the members

1017
00:51:32,380 --> 00:51:28,210
that 13 certain things are a certain way

1018
00:51:34,749 --> 00:51:32,390
and it's they're not in my opinion as

1019
00:51:36,339 --> 00:51:34,759
open-minded as they should be maybe they

1020
00:51:39,039 --> 00:51:36,349
were in the very beginning but I think

1021
00:51:42,430 --> 00:51:39,049
there are people that have just been in

1022
00:51:45,519 --> 00:51:42,440
you know in a in a move on for like 40

1023
00:51:48,910 --> 00:51:45,529
50 years and they're kind of like set in

1024
00:51:53,110 --> 00:51:48,920
their mind what is what and

1025
00:52:01,080 --> 00:51:53,120
they really aren't many are not open to

1026
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:01,090
new suggestions so once I explained it I

1027
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:04,490
think they'd be they don't want to admit

1028
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:06,170
that it makes any sense but I can see

1029
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:08,330
from the look in their eye it makes

1030
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:12,490
sense now so you read these 2000 cases

1031
00:52:18,970 --> 00:52:15,200
yeah but I I and I understand that

1032
00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:18,980
that's a big huge undertaking but what

1033
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:21,280
made you come to certain conclusions

1034
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:23,690
let's go back to the vehicles for

1035
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:25,850
instances because they were splitting

1036
00:52:30,850 --> 00:52:29,210
off which I have heard before you know

1037
00:52:32,530 --> 00:52:30,860
that type of thing or what what made you

1038
00:52:36,190 --> 00:52:32,540
come up with these different conclusions

1039
00:52:41,590 --> 00:52:36,200
that all the various descriptions that I

1040
00:52:43,930 --> 00:52:41,600
read of of orb activity once you I want

1041
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:43,940
to read the book you have my book now

1042
00:52:50,230 --> 00:52:46,610
and I I include just a small number of

1043
00:52:53,590 --> 00:52:50,240
cases in there probably I don't know 100

1044
00:52:54,610 --> 00:52:53,600
or so but they are representative they

1045
00:52:57,850 --> 00:52:54,620
will soar in all the cases the

1046
00:53:01,000 --> 00:52:57,860
representative of how ident I identified

1047
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:01,010
certain things mm-hmm

1048
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:04,850
in terms of or behavior or you know what

1049
00:53:11,860 --> 00:53:08,570
they do and as I said I I connected the

1050
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:11,870
dots I read you know I started seeing

1051
00:53:18,190 --> 00:53:14,450
certain things repeated a number of

1052
00:53:19,990 --> 00:53:18,200
times the same thing you know and I just

1053
00:53:22,420 --> 00:53:20,000
started piecing this whole thing

1054
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:22,430
together until I got a really good

1055
00:53:27,790 --> 00:53:25,490
picture of what's going on these words

1056
00:53:31,090 --> 00:53:27,800
what they do you know what the cloaks

1057
00:53:33,790 --> 00:53:31,100
are all about even you know the traffic

1058
00:53:37,750 --> 00:53:33,800
patterns I was able to establish what

1059
00:53:39,970 --> 00:53:37,760
their traffic patterns were by going

1060
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:39,980
through each case and noting the

1061
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:42,290
direction they were coming from and

1062
00:53:50,710 --> 00:53:46,330
going to and I was able to figure out

1063
00:53:52,090 --> 00:53:50,720
they come the the orbs in the United

1064
00:53:55,630 --> 00:53:52,100
States come from four different

1065
00:54:01,140 --> 00:53:55,640
locations and I was able to determine

1066
00:54:05,579 --> 00:54:04,109
you know what we have we have about 6

1067
00:54:07,769 --> 00:54:05,589
minutes left to the top of the hour and

1068
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:07,779
I just realized that you were gonna make

1069
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:10,930
some type of announcement yes okay go

1070
00:54:14,700 --> 00:54:13,450
ahead far away well this is actually a

1071
00:54:17,579 --> 00:54:14,710
life lesson to everybody that's

1072
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:17,589
listening often people say well you know

1073
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:19,930
what can one person do you know there's

1074
00:54:24,599 --> 00:54:22,690
a problem what can one person do well

1075
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:24,609
this is a good story as to what person

1076
00:54:35,130 --> 00:54:29,440
one person can do as I said in 2013 when

1077
00:54:39,359 --> 00:54:35,140
I saw these weren't orbs the almost

1078
00:54:44,609 --> 00:54:39,369
accepted dogma of MUFON is that they are

1079
00:54:48,269 --> 00:54:44,619
Chinese lanterns and since my book came

1080
00:54:51,299 --> 00:54:48,279
out it's been but it's been doing very

1081
00:54:53,789 --> 00:54:51,309
well worldwide and a number of field

1082
00:54:56,549 --> 00:54:53,799
investigators are reading it and it's

1083
00:54:58,559 --> 00:54:56,559
made it made its way all the way up to

1084
00:55:04,460 --> 00:54:58,569
the state directors and then to MUFON

1085
00:55:09,019 --> 00:55:04,470
headquarters and I have sort of

1086
00:55:12,599 --> 00:55:09,029
accumulated some disciples who are

1087
00:55:15,900 --> 00:55:12,609
picking up on what I did and some of

1088
00:55:22,009 --> 00:55:15,910
them are connected with the headquarters

1089
00:55:27,989 --> 00:55:22,019
and the the powers that be have become

1090
00:55:29,970 --> 00:55:27,999
so so influenced by my book and some of

1091
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:29,980
the work that some other people are

1092
00:55:36,739 --> 00:55:33,130
doing that after they read my book they

1093
00:55:41,599 --> 00:55:36,749
sort of began doing what I'm doing that

1094
00:55:43,799 --> 00:55:41,609
MUFON headquarters mmm out in California

1095
00:55:47,539 --> 00:55:43,809
has decided to do something they've

1096
00:55:50,460 --> 00:55:47,549
never done before they are forming a

1097
00:55:56,329 --> 00:55:50,470
specific research project they're gonna

1098
00:55:59,670 --> 00:55:56,339
call it project Orange created to study

1099
00:56:04,380 --> 00:55:59,680
one phenomenon and that is the orange

1100
00:56:09,539 --> 00:56:04,390
orb phenomenon and there are four

1101
00:56:12,799 --> 00:56:09,549
members right now I'm a member bill

1102
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:12,809
burns is a member I'm sure you know bill

1103
00:56:19,259 --> 00:56:14,890
you know bill bill

1104
00:56:21,980 --> 00:56:19,269
tired lasting bill birnes he does UFO

1105
00:56:26,190 --> 00:56:21,990
magazine and he was on UFO Hunters is a

1106
00:56:29,940 --> 00:56:26,200
show in a couple yeah yeah he's like mr.

1107
00:56:32,069 --> 00:56:29,950
UFO mm-hmm and there's a guy by name of

1108
00:56:35,519 --> 00:56:32,079
Bob spearing he's from New Jersey

1109
00:56:40,279 --> 00:56:35,529
he he he read my book and it sort of

1110
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:44,670
detailed work using a lot of computer

1111
00:56:50,220 --> 00:56:47,650
apps to sort of piece together the

1112
00:56:53,220 --> 00:56:50,230
things that I was doing he's used Excel

1113
00:56:58,529 --> 00:56:53,230
and spreadsheets and all sorts of things

1114
00:57:02,099 --> 00:56:58,539
he is on the a project member and Erica

1115
00:57:06,269 --> 00:57:02,109
Luke's mmm she's a state director for in

1116
00:57:08,460 --> 00:57:06,279
Utah and she also works with MUFON

1117
00:57:16,049 --> 00:57:08,470
headquarters she's also on the project

1118
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:16,059
so that is a 180-degree turn that was

1119
00:57:22,740 --> 00:57:19,930
made since last October in your book was

1120
00:57:24,359 --> 00:57:22,750
released when October of last year okay

1121
00:57:26,519 --> 00:57:24,369
so that's what you're talking about this

1122
00:57:28,890 --> 00:57:26,529
has made a tremendous difference and new

1123
00:57:30,930 --> 00:57:28,900
thinking and move on it really has to

1124
00:57:31,740 --> 00:57:30,940
the point that they're doing something

1125
00:57:34,499 --> 00:57:31,750
never did before

1126
00:57:38,210 --> 00:57:34,509
we're gonna have Project Orange yeah you

1127
00:57:43,579 --> 00:57:38,220
know and it's we're going to do a lot of

1128
00:57:46,710 --> 00:57:43,589
in-depth studies documentation you know

1129
00:57:49,259 --> 00:57:46,720
we're gonna be going on you know various

1130
00:57:53,099 --> 00:57:49,269
investigations I want to hear one of the

1131
00:57:57,809 --> 00:57:53,109
first things we're gonna do sure what we

1132
00:58:02,190 --> 00:57:57,819
want to do is completely do away with

1133
00:58:03,660 --> 00:58:02,200
this Chinese lantern thing you know

1134
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:03,670
we've got to get rid of that idea and

1135
00:58:09,359 --> 00:58:07,690
move on and what we're gonna do is Bob

1136
00:58:12,359 --> 00:58:09,369
spearing and I are working on this in

1137
00:58:16,829 --> 00:58:12,369
particular we are going to do a map of

1138
00:58:20,430 --> 00:58:16,839
the United States and find the hot spots

1139
00:58:24,690 --> 00:58:20,440
there are places that orange orbs visit

1140
00:58:26,009 --> 00:58:24,700
daily people come they know where to

1141
00:58:28,829 --> 00:58:26,019
stand and they'll see them come out

1142
00:58:32,670 --> 00:58:28,839
every night what we're doing is we're

1143
00:58:33,209 --> 00:58:32,680
going to map them and what we're gonna

1144
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:33,219
do

1145
00:58:41,059 --> 00:58:38,170
year or if you get in this far in the

1146
00:58:44,700 --> 00:58:41,069
book what night of the year that the

1147
00:58:45,150 --> 00:58:44,710
sightings go up a thousand fold wasn't

1148
00:58:48,239 --> 00:58:45,160
it

1149
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:48,249
July fourth right fourth of July that's

1150
00:58:53,339 --> 00:58:50,640
because the herbs want to be seen and

1151
00:58:54,359 --> 00:58:53,349
they know that probably two hundred

1152
00:58:55,650 --> 00:58:54,369
thirty million people gonna be looking

1153
00:58:57,749 --> 00:58:55,660
at the sky that night

1154
00:59:00,719 --> 00:58:57,759
I've also many people argued that that's

1155
00:59:02,789 --> 00:59:00,729
when Chinese lanterns are out there I've

1156
00:59:04,289 --> 00:59:02,799
heard that argument just to just to

1157
00:59:07,170 --> 00:59:04,299
throw it or they can make the argument

1158
00:59:09,390 --> 00:59:07,180
but if you look at the characteristics

1159
00:59:13,380 --> 00:59:09,400
of what a Chinese Lantern does in orange

1160
00:59:16,049 --> 00:59:13,390
orb does it's sort of like comparing a

1161
00:59:18,839 --> 00:59:16,059
bird to a blimp you know what I mean

1162
00:59:21,209 --> 00:59:18,849
they are they're nothing alike

1163
00:59:25,469 --> 00:59:21,219
I mean if once you see an orange orb you

1164
00:59:26,969 --> 00:59:25,479
will never say that you'll laugh when

1165
00:59:30,539 --> 00:59:26,979
someone says that was a Chinese lantern

1166
00:59:33,209 --> 00:59:30,549
they were so different but anyway what

1167
00:59:36,779 --> 00:59:33,219
we're gonna do is we're going to publish

1168
00:59:38,279 --> 00:59:36,789
this map throughout the country you know

1169
00:59:41,999 --> 00:59:38,289
through news media and everything and

1170
00:59:44,390 --> 00:59:42,009
and and tell people to go this coming

1171
00:59:47,370 --> 00:59:44,400
fourth of July to one of the hotspots

1172
00:59:49,620 --> 00:59:47,380
take their cameras take their videos and

1173
00:59:52,739 --> 00:59:49,630
I predict we're going to get a lot of

1174
00:59:55,829 --> 00:59:52,749
converts this fourth of July hmm about

1175
00:59:57,660 --> 00:59:55,839
that do you for the first hour listen do

1176
01:00:01,380 --> 00:59:57,670
you have a website you can throw out

1177
01:00:05,219 --> 01:00:01,390
there or where to get your book I'll

1178
01:00:07,620 --> 01:00:05,229
tell you Amazon or Barnes and Noble

1179
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:07,630
whatever but I would like to recommend

1180
01:00:15,599 --> 01:00:12,130
that you get it on the MUFON bookstore

1181
01:00:17,579 --> 01:00:15,609
online because the money goes to move on

1182
01:00:20,489 --> 01:00:17,589
you know rather than make it an Amazon

1183
01:00:25,019 --> 01:00:20,499
rich I would rather see move on get the

1184
01:00:29,239 --> 01:00:25,029
money so I would suggest they go to the

1185
01:00:32,219 --> 01:00:29,249
it's called arc star AR SI st AR but if

1186
01:00:35,039 --> 01:00:32,229
the easiest ways is just to go to the

1187
01:00:39,049 --> 01:00:35,049
move on website anyone can find a MUFON

1188
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:39,059
comm and you will see on their books

1189
01:00:44,940 --> 01:00:42,010
just click on books and

1190
01:00:47,970 --> 01:00:44,950
I'm the number one seller there all

1191
01:00:49,710 --> 01:00:47,980
right that's it for this hour and hang

1192
01:01:25,849 --> 01:00:49,720
in there after the music break for our

1193
01:01:31,650 --> 01:01:28,560
well that was by Carrie Lord white house

1194
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:31,660
he is uh in Ireland and he supplies some

1195
01:01:35,460 --> 01:01:33,250
of our music and that was probably for

1196
01:01:38,430 --> 01:01:35,470
some movie he does a lot of music for

1197
01:01:41,069 --> 01:01:38,440
different movies kind of spooky and

1198
01:01:44,460 --> 01:01:41,079
mesmerizing once again so we're back

1199
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:44,470
with Terry ray and this hour we're going

1200
01:01:50,550 --> 01:01:47,050
to be I'm hitting on a subject that has

1201
01:01:52,170 --> 01:01:50,560
to do with what is valid UFO evidence

1202
01:01:54,390 --> 01:01:52,180
we're going to touch on that and a

1203
01:01:56,550 --> 01:01:54,400
number of other things and continue to

1204
01:02:00,329 --> 01:01:56,560
talk about Terry you're back aren't you

1205
01:02:02,460 --> 01:02:00,339
I am back and I would like to have you

1206
01:02:04,290 --> 01:02:02,470
pick out a couple of cases and talk

1207
01:02:07,980 --> 01:02:04,300
about them that you wrote in your book

1208
01:02:11,450 --> 01:02:07,990
just one in particular that you find is

1209
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:11,460
a really interesting case of you would

1210
01:02:20,670 --> 01:02:19,930
okay one one case let me back up a

1211
01:02:23,780 --> 01:02:20,680
second there

1212
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:23,790
there have been landings of these orbs

1213
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:27,010
which means the vehicle has landed you

1214
01:02:34,319 --> 01:02:29,890
know which it is in the cloak with the

1215
01:02:39,690 --> 01:02:34,329
orb anyway and there there have been a

1216
01:02:41,370 --> 01:02:39,700
number of people that have seen the the

1217
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:41,380
the people whatever you want to call

1218
01:02:49,589 --> 01:02:44,530
them the beings that are piloting these

1219
01:02:53,370 --> 01:02:49,599
orbs have seen them come out in very

1220
01:02:59,099 --> 01:02:53,380
close proximity there are two types

1221
01:03:01,980 --> 01:02:59,109
there are is the the tall the tall being

1222
01:03:06,030 --> 01:03:01,990
there about eight to nine feet tall they

1223
01:03:09,870 --> 01:03:06,040
were a black shiny skin tight suit of

1224
01:03:12,630 --> 01:03:09,880
some kind and they are very very strong

1225
01:03:14,700 --> 01:03:12,640
and there's their suit as short a shiny

1226
01:03:18,569 --> 01:03:14,710
black material and then there are the

1227
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:18,579
smaller ones and they are about four

1228
01:03:25,740 --> 01:03:22,319
feet tall and they are a lighter color

1229
01:03:28,349 --> 01:03:25,750
and no one is quite sure what exactly

1230
01:03:30,150 --> 01:03:28,359
they have on their skin and whether it's

1231
01:03:34,890 --> 01:03:30,160
just skin or whatever it is

1232
01:03:38,010 --> 01:03:34,900
anyway here's the point there are here's

1233
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:38,020
here's an example of

1234
01:03:45,660 --> 01:03:41,010
in case where these were seen together

1235
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:45,670
it was a I'm trying to think I think it

1236
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:49,930
was North Carolina I don't I don't

1237
01:03:58,440 --> 01:03:52,170
remember but I think it was there was a

1238
01:04:01,860 --> 01:03:58,450
was a farmhouse and they saw from the

1239
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:01,870
orbs the orange orbs going overhead and

1240
01:04:05,820 --> 01:04:04,090
there was two there if you came out

1241
01:04:08,490 --> 01:04:05,830
their front door to their right there is

1242
01:04:11,940 --> 01:04:08,500
a big tall Hill that's pretty steep hill

1243
01:04:14,610 --> 01:04:11,950
and looked like the orange orb landed up

1244
01:04:17,070 --> 01:04:14,620
there so they climbed up the hill it was

1245
01:04:20,550 --> 01:04:17,080
a whole family there were about five of

1246
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:20,560
them including grandmother who climbed

1247
01:04:27,570 --> 01:04:23,410
up anyway when they got the top of the

1248
01:04:29,250 --> 01:04:27,580
hill the the V there was a vehicle

1249
01:04:31,830 --> 01:04:29,260
parked here a space they call it no

1250
01:04:38,010 --> 01:04:31,840
longer had the orb they had turned off

1251
01:04:43,850 --> 01:04:38,020
the orb and they saw the tall beings and

1252
01:04:46,980 --> 01:04:43,860
the small beings together and what what

1253
01:04:50,250 --> 01:04:46,990
their description really made an

1254
01:04:54,180 --> 01:04:50,260
impression on my mind they said when

1255
01:04:57,840 --> 01:04:54,190
they watched them and looked like human

1256
01:05:00,620 --> 01:04:57,850
beings at a playground the tall beings

1257
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:00,630
were sort of standing around conversing

1258
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:05,170
while the little ones were playing you

1259
01:05:10,710 --> 01:05:06,490
know running around playing like

1260
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:10,720
children which I found fascinating I

1261
01:05:16,230 --> 01:05:13,570
thought well that could be what we're

1262
01:05:18,660 --> 01:05:16,240
looking at they you know the the smaller

1263
01:05:20,310 --> 01:05:18,670
beings they that's what they look like

1264
01:05:23,460 --> 01:05:20,320
when they're kids and then they grow up

1265
01:05:25,380 --> 01:05:23,470
to be you know nine feet tall but I

1266
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:25,390
thought that was a fascinating case that

1267
01:05:30,980 --> 01:05:27,730
to get an insight as to the relationship

1268
01:05:33,930 --> 01:05:30,990
between the big ones and the little ones

1269
01:05:37,830 --> 01:05:33,940
mm-hmm now sometimes you hear people

1270
01:05:42,090 --> 01:05:37,840
talking about plasma plasma ball yeah

1271
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:42,100
and and I want to address that and then

1272
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:44,290
I have a question up on the message

1273
01:05:51,300 --> 01:05:47,650
board okay what do you say to that

1274
01:05:53,340 --> 01:05:51,310
I'm not dunking or anything but

1275
01:05:56,430 --> 01:05:53,350
there's probably situations where there

1276
01:06:01,010 --> 01:05:56,440
is plasma I would think well for all I

1277
01:06:05,850 --> 01:06:01,020
know I really have no idea what this

1278
01:06:09,990 --> 01:06:05,860
this cloak is made of for all I know it

1279
01:06:12,390 --> 01:06:10,000
could be plasma it's sort of has the the

1280
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:12,400
characteristics of slope of plasma its

1281
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:15,930
appearance looks like a mix between a

1282
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:21,090
solid and a liquid sometime they are

1283
01:06:27,750 --> 01:06:25,570
somewhat shimmery and a lot of people

1284
01:06:31,290 --> 01:06:27,760
have said about these cloaks that it

1285
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:31,300
looks like they're the it's moving

1286
01:06:34,530 --> 01:06:32,050
around

1287
01:06:39,990 --> 01:06:34,540
it's neither that the orbit self the

1288
01:06:42,150 --> 01:06:40,000
surface is moving around and if someone

1289
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:42,160
told me that was plasma I would say

1290
01:06:49,230 --> 01:06:45,930
that's that's very plausible okay and

1291
01:06:51,810 --> 01:06:49,240
question up on the message board

1292
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:51,820
have you ever collaborated this data

1293
01:06:58,020 --> 01:06:53,890
from MUFON with other places such as

1294
01:07:03,600 --> 01:06:58,030
nycap or new fork anything like that no

1295
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:03,610
I have not I I know they they are

1296
01:07:11,910 --> 01:07:09,370
interested I mean I've had contact with

1297
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:11,920
certain people and other organizations

1298
01:07:18,390 --> 01:07:14,890
about my book so they're interested but

1299
01:07:22,100 --> 01:07:18,400
I've never really it's kind of hard

1300
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:22,110
right now you know you you have these

1301
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:25,330
proprietary things that you deal with

1302
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:29,050
like MUFON has its own cases and you

1303
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:32,890
have to be a member to see them you know

1304
01:07:38,940 --> 01:07:35,530
to a certain extent just by being a

1305
01:07:40,980 --> 01:07:38,950
regular member and then you can see more

1306
01:07:45,690 --> 01:07:40,990
and more detail when you're field

1307
01:07:48,750 --> 01:07:45,700
investigator and I don't know that

1308
01:07:50,460 --> 01:07:48,760
MUFON would be thrilled it would be hard

1309
01:07:51,030 --> 01:07:50,470
to collaborate if you understand what

1310
01:07:53,540 --> 01:07:51,040
I'm saying

1311
01:07:56,130 --> 01:07:53,550
I I would have no way of giving

1312
01:08:00,330 --> 01:07:56,140
permission to anyone else to go into the

1313
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:00,340
files MUFON files and work with me on

1314
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:03,490
these files there's been a little bit of

1315
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:05,290
not I don't want to say contra

1316
01:08:12,750 --> 01:08:08,530
but I know a long time investigator that

1317
01:08:16,620 --> 01:08:12,760
was trying to have someone at MUFON give

1318
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:16,630
that a witness in a case his number say

1319
01:08:20,039 --> 01:08:18,370
I don't want you know I want that person

1320
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:20,049
to be able to call me because I'm been

1321
01:08:26,789 --> 01:08:22,330
researching this case on my own right

1322
01:08:30,300 --> 01:08:26,799
and they're refused to get in that is

1323
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:30,310
that just policy it is that's one of the

1324
01:08:37,230 --> 01:08:33,130
first things you learn there's a reason

1325
01:08:42,059 --> 01:08:37,240
for it people because of the stigma

1326
01:08:44,130 --> 01:08:42,069
attached to reporting a UFO people if

1327
01:08:47,789 --> 01:08:44,140
they think their personal information

1328
01:08:51,480 --> 01:08:47,799
would be released to somebody else often

1329
01:08:53,220 --> 01:08:51,490
will not talk to you they want they want

1330
01:08:56,340 --> 01:08:53,230
to know that this remained completely

1331
01:08:59,010 --> 01:08:56,350
confidential we are not allowed to give

1332
01:09:03,539 --> 01:08:59,020
when we write a report we're not allowed

1333
01:09:05,670 --> 01:09:03,549
to give a an address or a complete name

1334
01:09:10,039 --> 01:09:05,680
of anybody we can use first names or a

1335
01:09:13,950 --> 01:09:10,049
pseudonym but confidentiality is sort of

1336
01:09:16,140 --> 01:09:13,960
the rule of the day when it comes to

1337
01:09:18,150 --> 01:09:16,150
MUFON cases and there's as I said

1338
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:18,160
there's a reason for it well I you know

1339
01:09:23,010 --> 01:09:20,410
don't want it to get out yeah you also

1340
01:09:26,370 --> 01:09:23,020
want to have a safe place for people to

1341
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:26,380
report whether they're not gonna have to

1342
01:09:29,519 --> 01:09:28,930
worry about that right so I understand

1343
01:09:32,550 --> 01:09:29,529
that

1344
01:09:35,789 --> 01:09:32,560
have you ever investigated personally an

1345
01:09:39,539 --> 01:09:35,799
orange orb case or an orb case yeah

1346
01:09:41,820 --> 01:09:39,549
quite a few of them is this like many

1347
01:09:46,740 --> 01:09:41,830
years have to factor or right after no

1348
01:09:52,700 --> 01:09:46,750
after since I started writing about

1349
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:52,710
orange orbs now my my state director

1350
01:09:57,740 --> 01:09:56,170
sends me most of the cases or I'm called

1351
01:10:02,130 --> 01:09:57,750
in on a case

1352
01:10:06,090 --> 01:10:02,140
so I've you know I I'm sort of the go-to

1353
01:10:07,590 --> 01:10:06,100
orb guy in Pennsylvania I see huh huh

1354
01:10:11,610 --> 01:10:07,600
and I get called by other field

1355
01:10:13,470 --> 01:10:11,620
investigators too well you know who want

1356
01:10:16,650 --> 01:10:13,480
an opinion on something they send me a

1357
01:10:18,570 --> 01:10:16,660
video they'll send me a photo that sort

1358
01:10:21,220 --> 01:10:18,580
of thing

1359
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:21,230
don't want no if I have I ever seen

1360
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:23,690
anything like this or what's my opinion

1361
01:10:31,260 --> 01:10:27,250
on it that kind of thing so I'm sort of

1362
01:10:34,930 --> 01:10:31,270
become a consultant in a way I'm pay

1363
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:34,940
right now when you mentioned earlier

1364
01:10:40,030 --> 01:10:37,730
we're talking about beings and the

1365
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:40,040
different sizes and all that yeah first

1366
01:10:45,850 --> 01:10:41,290
of all someone on the message board

1367
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:45,860
wondered why you suggested that the

1368
01:10:52,330 --> 01:10:48,610
taller ones were strong what made you

1369
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:52,340
because they have been seen doing some

1370
01:11:00,220 --> 01:10:55,370
very very heavy lifting and carrying

1371
01:11:03,010 --> 01:11:00,230
some things that the you know the

1372
01:11:06,670 --> 01:11:03,020
witness said it would take you know five

1373
01:11:08,610 --> 01:11:06,680
men to lift that and one one of the tall

1374
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:08,620
beings was lifting it and carrying it

1375
01:11:15,430 --> 01:11:11,090
that's been mentioned a number of times

1376
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:15,440
in a number of cases so that's why no I

1377
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:16,970
would conclude there they're pretty

1378
01:11:21,700 --> 01:11:19,010
strong now when you're talking about

1379
01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:21,710
these beings in the orbs the tall ones

1380
01:11:24,430 --> 01:11:23,120
the short ones yeah

1381
01:11:29,140 --> 01:11:24,440
are there many cases that they're

1382
01:11:31,660 --> 01:11:29,150
actually saying the same thing what do

1383
01:11:34,810 --> 01:11:31,670
you mean that's a seeing beings coming

1384
01:11:36,730 --> 01:11:34,820
out of these orbs yeah oh yeah quite a

1385
01:11:39,130 --> 01:11:36,740
few cases and in different areas

1386
01:11:42,430 --> 01:11:39,140
different witnesses all over the country

1387
01:11:45,010 --> 01:11:42,440
all over the country and this one poor

1388
01:11:48,820 --> 01:11:45,020
woman she was she lived on a farm and

1389
01:11:54,930 --> 01:11:48,830
saw the orbs come down and she was out

1390
01:11:58,920 --> 01:11:54,940
on her porch and the orb came down and

1391
01:12:03,520 --> 01:11:58,930
then she saw something moving and then

1392
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:03,530
she is she something was coming out of

1393
01:12:07,660 --> 01:12:04,970
the orb she didn't want it was as they

1394
01:12:11,430 --> 01:12:07,670
got closer she saw they were there about

1395
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:11,440
ten of their really tall by beings and

1396
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:14,690
she said they ran like a deer she'd

1397
01:12:20,350 --> 01:12:17,450
never seen anything run so fast in her

1398
01:12:21,970 --> 01:12:20,360
life but at that point they were running

1399
01:12:24,910 --> 01:12:21,980
like in the direction of the farmhouse

1400
01:12:27,250 --> 01:12:24,920
she so she went in I got everybody

1401
01:12:28,930 --> 01:12:27,260
together locked the doors and pulled

1402
01:12:30,460 --> 01:12:28,940
down the shades and she was very much

1403
01:12:32,620 --> 01:12:30,470
afraid mm-hmm

1404
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:32,630
that sounds like a case I've heard

1405
01:12:37,990 --> 01:12:35,810
before were they recruiting and yeah I

1406
01:12:40,150 --> 01:12:38,000
felt bad for her because I you know I

1407
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:40,160
don't think she quite understands I

1408
01:12:44,950 --> 01:12:42,050
think she thought MUFON was a government

1409
01:12:45,910 --> 01:12:44,960
or organization or something because she

1410
01:12:47,770 --> 01:12:45,920
said can you

1411
01:12:51,490 --> 01:12:47,780
we're frightened can you please come

1412
01:12:53,890 --> 01:12:51,500
help us you know and we're not equipped

1413
01:12:56,020 --> 01:12:53,900
to do that you know and the government

1414
01:12:58,510 --> 01:12:56,030
isn't gonna do it because you have a

1415
01:13:00,460 --> 01:12:58,520
problem you know when I very first heard

1416
01:13:02,230 --> 01:13:00,470
of MUFON and what it stood for I thought

1417
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:02,240
it was a government organization yeah a

1418
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:05,090
lot of people do yeah now and she she

1419
01:13:10,090 --> 01:13:06,530
was turning you coming to us for help

1420
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:10,100
you know for her safety right Wow now

1421
01:13:13,450 --> 01:13:11,810
one of the things that comes to mind

1422
01:13:16,390 --> 01:13:13,460
when you're talking about these landing

1423
01:13:23,590 --> 01:13:16,400
cases has anyone researched any trace

1424
01:13:26,140 --> 01:13:23,600
evidence --is of any of these orbs I I

1425
01:13:30,610 --> 01:13:26,150
you know I haven't read any of that

1426
01:13:32,620 --> 01:13:30,620
happening but I've been told that people

1427
01:13:36,790 --> 01:13:32,630
have done some trace evidence I don't

1428
01:13:39,730 --> 01:13:36,800
know of anything personally none of the

1429
01:13:43,020 --> 01:13:39,740
cases I read mentioned anything about

1430
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:43,030
any trace evidence

1431
01:13:50,250 --> 01:13:48,170
there were descriptions of marks being

1432
01:13:53,620 --> 01:13:50,260
left on the ground like circular marks

1433
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:53,630
that kind of thing but I endure all the

1434
01:13:58,660 --> 01:13:55,370
reports I read I didn't read it if

1435
01:14:02,710 --> 01:13:58,670
anyone doing any in a soil analysis or

1436
01:14:05,470 --> 01:14:02,720
anything along that line I see what

1437
01:14:10,480 --> 01:14:05,480
about other countries

1438
01:14:15,130 --> 01:14:10,490
well MUFON has about 60 countries that

1439
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:15,140
are members and this is going on all

1440
01:14:21,190 --> 01:14:18,410
over the world if you if you have my

1441
01:14:23,140 --> 01:14:21,200
book there yes I do and I saw a map and

1442
01:14:28,180 --> 01:14:23,150
everything yeah there's there's a map

1443
01:14:31,660 --> 01:14:28,190
there is a there's a chapter near the

1444
01:14:34,180 --> 01:14:31,670
back called around the world and I I

1445
01:14:39,420 --> 01:14:34,190
have cases about I don't know 15 20

1446
01:14:44,460 --> 01:14:39,430
cases from you know China India South

1447
01:14:48,100 --> 01:14:44,470
America Japan

1448
01:14:51,310 --> 01:14:48,110
Ireland there all over the world mm-hmm

1449
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:51,320
same exact same description you know I I

1450
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:52,850
think I mentioned to you earlier I

1451
01:14:56,890 --> 01:14:54,410
didn't get a chance to get through your

1452
01:14:59,770 --> 01:14:56,900
book but I still like to ask questions

1453
01:15:01,300 --> 01:14:59,780
even if I know the answers just so you

1454
01:15:03,070 --> 01:15:01,310
know the listening audience yeah they're

1455
01:15:07,690 --> 01:15:03,080
because they didn't read it yet right

1456
01:15:10,300 --> 01:15:07,700
yeah and I talked to you about the UFO

1457
01:15:12,220 --> 01:15:10,310
evidence in just a second but I wanted

1458
01:15:14,050 --> 01:15:12,230
to find out what another if you can just

1459
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:14,060
throw another case that was really

1460
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:15,410
interesting you and as you were looking

1461
01:15:20,650 --> 01:15:18,530
through all these - okay yeah another

1462
01:15:24,250 --> 01:15:20,660
one this happened I think it was in

1463
01:15:27,700 --> 01:15:24,260
Pennsylvania there were a group of

1464
01:15:33,850 --> 01:15:27,710
hunters out in the fall and they had

1465
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:33,860
camped out and there they saw through

1466
01:15:40,420 --> 01:15:37,130
the trees they saw these round orange

1467
01:15:45,250 --> 01:15:40,430
globes coming along and looked like they

1468
01:15:47,950 --> 01:15:45,260
landed in an opening not far away you

1469
01:15:50,350 --> 01:15:47,960
know maybe a half a mile away and two of

1470
01:15:52,090 --> 01:15:50,360
the guy the - the guy said let's go see

1471
01:15:53,440 --> 01:15:52,100
what it is and the rest of them weren't

1472
01:15:58,270 --> 01:15:53,450
interested they wanted to sit around the

1473
01:16:01,210 --> 01:15:58,280
fire so these two guys went and they

1474
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:01,220
went into this open field and there was

1475
01:16:08,230 --> 01:16:04,570
no orange orb however they did see a

1476
01:16:16,300 --> 01:16:08,240
vehicle they said was about the size of

1477
01:16:18,460 --> 01:16:16,310
a large van and they saw two guys they

1478
01:16:20,470 --> 01:16:18,470
said the one guy described it like it's

1479
01:16:21,850 --> 01:16:20,480
two guys out looking at an engine trying

1480
01:16:24,910 --> 01:16:21,860
to figure out what the matter is you

1481
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:24,920
know they were looking over their craft

1482
01:16:29,260 --> 01:16:27,530
and they seemed to be discussing

1483
01:16:35,110 --> 01:16:29,270
something with one another they were two

1484
01:16:37,810 --> 01:16:35,120
of these large beings and the beings at

1485
01:16:40,440 --> 01:16:37,820
some point heard them and they were at

1486
01:16:43,480 --> 01:16:40,450
this point maybe three in her feet away

1487
01:16:46,540 --> 01:16:43,490
they heard them and they just turned and

1488
01:16:49,630 --> 01:16:46,550
looked at these two hunters and then

1489
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:49,640
they turned away then the hunters said

1490
01:16:55,930 --> 01:16:52,970
that they were they were starting to get

1491
01:16:57,870 --> 01:16:55,940
a little uneasy at this point I'm a

1492
01:17:00,730 --> 01:16:57,880
decided they were going to leave

1493
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:00,740
but they couldn't they were moving

1494
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:06,170
toward the craft and they couldn't stop

1495
01:17:12,220 --> 01:17:08,930
moving toward the craft there was

1496
01:17:14,980 --> 01:17:12,230
something pulling them and they said

1497
01:17:19,480 --> 01:17:14,990
they were pulled all the way to the

1498
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:19,490
craft and these these two tall beings I

1499
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:21,170
don't know if they were guys I assume

1500
01:17:29,620 --> 01:17:23,690
they're guys but maybe not anyway took

1501
01:17:31,630 --> 01:17:29,630
them inside the craft and they didn't go

1502
01:17:35,890 --> 01:17:31,640
into great detail but they said they did

1503
01:17:41,500 --> 01:17:35,900
things to them that were disgusting and

1504
01:17:47,050 --> 01:17:41,510
humiliating like to their bodies and

1505
01:17:50,470 --> 01:17:47,060
then they let him go similar story you

1506
01:17:53,730 --> 01:17:50,480
hear a lot yeah I'm going up to a

1507
01:17:56,470 --> 01:17:53,740
question here earlier you mentioned that

1508
01:17:59,500 --> 01:17:56,480
there was a good photo of an orb that

1509
01:18:01,990 --> 01:17:59,510
looked like it had 12 crafts inside has

1510
01:18:06,070 --> 01:18:02,000
a picture ever been analyzed by a photo

1511
01:18:08,740 --> 01:18:06,080
specialists like Bruce Maccabee or or D

1512
01:18:12,940 --> 01:18:08,750
Antonio or anyone like that well it has

1513
01:18:16,140 --> 01:18:12,950
been circulated all through MUFON and no

1514
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:16,150
one has ever gotten back to me about it

1515
01:18:21,850 --> 01:18:19,610
but we do arm on me as I said I'm a

1516
01:18:27,900 --> 01:18:21,860
member of the orange orb project team

1517
01:18:31,950 --> 01:18:27,910
and we have have a video and

1518
01:18:34,350 --> 01:18:31,960
photographic expert and that is one of

1519
01:18:38,980 --> 01:18:34,360
the first things I'm asked them to do

1520
01:18:42,490 --> 01:18:38,990
mark - Antonio I believe I know he's at

1521
01:18:46,030 --> 01:18:42,500
least one of them one of MU phones so

1522
01:18:49,300 --> 01:18:46,040
that is that picture not available to

1523
01:18:51,220 --> 01:18:49,310
the public at all the picture I have yes

1524
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:51,230
well I'll tell you what you want me to

1525
01:18:55,570 --> 01:18:54,050
send it to you would I have permission

1526
01:18:57,640 --> 01:18:55,580
to put it on my website

1527
01:19:01,540 --> 01:18:57,650
sure all right I'd like to have that

1528
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:01,550
that would I asked I asked the person

1529
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:05,570
who took it if I could circulate this

1530
01:19:14,730 --> 01:19:10,330
publicly and he said

1531
01:19:16,290 --> 01:19:14,740
I may do that so you want you can just

1532
01:19:18,420 --> 01:19:16,300
tell me after the program whatever you

1533
01:19:19,620 --> 01:19:18,430
put it yeah I'll put it right in the

1534
01:19:20,100 --> 01:19:19,630
show no I don't have to write anything

1535
01:19:22,740 --> 01:19:20,110
down

1536
01:19:24,510 --> 01:19:22,750
it's a crazy-looking thing it really is

1537
01:19:28,500 --> 01:19:24,520
I've never seen anything like it it

1538
01:19:33,450 --> 01:19:28,510
looks like a pig literally it looks like

1539
01:19:38,070 --> 01:19:33,460
a pig and you will your your listeners

1540
01:19:40,620 --> 01:19:38,080
when they said they I'm not sure about

1541
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:40,630
this whether the there are vehicles

1542
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:43,210
either entering or exiting a number of

1543
01:19:46,140 --> 01:19:44,290
them it seems I don't know which

1544
01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:46,150
direction they're coming but you know

1545
01:19:52,500 --> 01:19:49,690
they can decide for themselves mm-hmm

1546
01:19:54,930 --> 01:19:52,510
it's fascinating a picture I can't wait

1547
01:19:58,020 --> 01:19:54,940
to see it and so the listener can go

1548
01:20:00,530 --> 01:19:58,030
into the show notes that'll be in there

1549
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:00,540
in there tomorrow which is Thursday yeah

1550
01:20:06,150 --> 01:20:04,570
okay also I would like to ask one of the

1551
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:06,160
people that just joined the message

1552
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:09,250
board said that he saw himself a green

1553
01:20:15,540 --> 01:20:11,530
or and I know I think I read something

1554
01:20:18,510 --> 01:20:15,550
about that in your book yep yeah let me

1555
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:18,520
let me just haven't mentioned this yet

1556
01:20:25,650 --> 01:20:23,530
but the orbs the the vehicle inside the

1557
01:20:34,320 --> 01:20:25,660
orb can make the or of any color they

1558
01:20:37,710 --> 01:20:34,330
want it orbs have been sorry the orbs

1559
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:37,720
have been seen to change colors right in

1560
01:20:42,900 --> 01:20:40,690
front of the witness's eyes it's orange

1561
01:20:46,700 --> 01:20:42,910
and then it's red then it's green then

1562
01:20:49,940 --> 01:20:46,710
it's blue then it's rainbow colored

1563
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:49,950
that's what they do that's part of

1564
01:20:57,300 --> 01:20:54,690
entertaining people and there are

1565
01:20:59,490 --> 01:20:57,310
there's another thing that's often seen

1566
01:21:02,790 --> 01:20:59,500
to which I have mentioned yet it's a

1567
01:21:04,860 --> 01:21:02,800
blue beam that comes out of these orbs

1568
01:21:08,220 --> 01:21:04,870
that's how they put things on the ground

1569
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:08,230
or extract things from the ground it's a

1570
01:21:15,810 --> 01:21:11,050
it's it's always blue the beam that they

1571
01:21:18,690 --> 01:21:15,820
used to for depositing things are

1572
01:21:21,780 --> 01:21:18,700
extracting people which includes their

1573
01:21:23,430 --> 01:21:21,790
own you know passengers they put them

1574
01:21:26,100 --> 01:21:23,440
down with a blue beam

1575
01:21:31,459 --> 01:21:26,110
there was a they actually picked up a

1576
01:21:38,010 --> 01:21:35,760
really this is this is these are just

1577
01:21:42,090 --> 01:21:38,020
witness testimonies and different

1578
01:21:44,310 --> 01:21:42,100
reports yes yeah but I mean you can read

1579
01:21:46,740 --> 01:21:44,320
them and you know these these aren't

1580
01:21:49,229 --> 01:21:46,750
there they're very credible I mean the

1581
01:21:52,770 --> 01:21:49,239
details they give I you know I'm an old

1582
01:21:56,670 --> 01:21:52,780
trial lawyer and I can tell a liar from

1583
01:21:59,520 --> 01:21:56,680
a mile away and these are and I did

1584
01:22:02,160 --> 01:21:59,530
dismiss some of the cases I read because

1585
01:22:05,150 --> 01:22:02,170
I thought this is not real you know it

1586
01:22:10,500 --> 01:22:05,160
sounds like someone who wants wants to

1587
01:22:14,850 --> 01:22:10,510
you know write his own screenplay you

1588
01:22:19,200 --> 01:22:14,860
know you can tell but so maybe ten

1589
01:22:21,780 --> 01:22:19,210
percent of the cases I did not bother

1590
01:22:24,740 --> 01:22:21,790
with because they weren't credible but

1591
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:24,750
every case I used was extremely credible

1592
01:22:31,500 --> 01:22:28,810
now what do you can you get more into

1593
01:22:34,350 --> 01:22:31,510
elaborating why you think that these

1594
01:22:37,860 --> 01:22:34,360
things are entertaining us or why they'd

1595
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:37,870
even want to yeah I want to talk about

1596
01:22:47,550 --> 01:22:42,610
that now yeah sure I think here's my

1597
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:47,560
opinion they they have decided rather

1598
01:22:52,590 --> 01:22:49,690
than to be stealthy which they were at

1599
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:52,600
one time and they were very infrequently

1600
01:22:59,729 --> 01:22:54,610
seen or photographed they're not

1601
01:23:04,880 --> 01:22:59,739
starting in about 2003 they they're they

1602
01:23:08,430 --> 01:23:04,890
made a decision to become very visible

1603
01:23:13,860 --> 01:23:08,440
and that's why they're orange in the

1604
01:23:20,130 --> 01:23:13,870
night sky the they could be flying along

1605
01:23:22,620 --> 01:23:20,140
without being seen the the the metal or

1606
01:23:25,110 --> 01:23:22,630
whatever frame they use of their vehicle

1607
01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:25,120
up in this guy you'd never see it and

1608
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:29,650
then instead of a vehicle you can't see

1609
01:23:36,009 --> 01:23:32,770
they've decided to sort of like dress up

1610
01:23:39,620 --> 01:23:36,019
for Halloween they have this

1611
01:23:42,290 --> 01:23:39,630
shining orange globe up there so they

1612
01:23:46,879 --> 01:23:42,300
clearly have decided instead of hiding

1613
01:23:50,450 --> 01:23:46,889
they not want to be seen and they they

1614
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:50,460
go where the people are they are they

1615
01:23:56,089 --> 01:23:53,489
appear over if you lie in the book I

1616
01:23:59,330 --> 01:23:56,099
would picture a satellite picture that

1617
01:24:02,239 --> 01:23:59,340
shows the lights of the big cities in

1618
01:24:04,279 --> 01:24:02,249
the United States then I did a map of

1619
01:24:06,950 --> 01:24:04,289
every orbit that's ever been seen in

1620
01:24:09,799 --> 01:24:06,960
United States and you can lay one on the

1621
01:24:11,750 --> 01:24:09,809
other and they match up perfectly hmm so

1622
01:24:16,580 --> 01:24:11,760
the orbs are going where the people are

1623
01:24:22,540 --> 01:24:16,590
they want to be seen and so that led me

1624
01:24:27,859 --> 01:24:24,739
speculation you know what what

1625
01:24:30,770 --> 01:24:27,869
conclusion I come to I'm thinking why

1626
01:24:32,839 --> 01:24:30,780
would they want to be seen why do they

1627
01:24:35,350 --> 01:24:32,849
go out of their way to have people look

1628
01:24:38,950 --> 01:24:35,360
at them by being entertaining and being

1629
01:24:43,779 --> 01:24:38,960
having different colors being in like

1630
01:24:49,549 --> 01:24:43,789
dancing with one another I in my opinion

1631
01:24:52,370 --> 01:24:49,559
they're trying to conditioned us to see

1632
01:24:57,200 --> 01:24:52,380
them and not be afraid of them and they

1633
01:24:59,180 --> 01:24:57,210
I told you the the old lady the farmer

1634
01:25:01,850 --> 01:24:59,190
lady was really afraid but that's

1635
01:25:03,830 --> 01:25:01,860
because she saw these very tall

1636
01:25:07,189 --> 01:25:03,840
creatures running toward her farmhouse

1637
01:25:09,609 --> 01:25:07,199
but in general most people described

1638
01:25:13,729 --> 01:25:09,619
these orbs as being beautiful

1639
01:25:18,109 --> 01:25:13,739
mesmerizing peaceful yes it is very

1640
01:25:19,969 --> 01:25:18,119
peaceful muted pastel color and I think

1641
01:25:23,689 --> 01:25:19,979
what they're trying to do is they're

1642
01:25:26,959 --> 01:25:23,699
trying to conditioned us not to be

1643
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:26,969
afraid of them and you know they're

1644
01:25:32,410 --> 01:25:29,570
their numbers have been increasing

1645
01:25:36,109 --> 01:25:32,420
dramatically over the last 10 years and

1646
01:25:38,629 --> 01:25:36,119
and it's all over the world and in my

1647
01:25:41,810 --> 01:25:38,639
opinion I think what they're doing is

1648
01:25:46,149 --> 01:25:41,820
they're they're getting us ready to

1649
01:25:48,259 --> 01:25:46,159
actually deal with them personally well

1650
01:25:50,419 --> 01:25:48,269
you never know

1651
01:25:53,270 --> 01:25:50,429
I think in general P

1652
01:25:56,209 --> 01:25:53,280
I'm gonna be more acceptable as you know

1653
01:25:57,890 --> 01:25:56,219
more science comes out about the

1654
01:26:01,330 --> 01:25:57,900
possibility of life elsewhere I think

1655
01:26:05,570 --> 01:26:01,340
we're just getting more attuned I think

1656
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:05,580
question besides the Phoenix lights have

1657
01:26:11,709 --> 01:26:07,650
there been any other mass sightings of

1658
01:26:14,450 --> 01:26:11,719
orange orbs that come to mind oh yeah

1659
01:26:16,490 --> 01:26:14,460
they they're going on all over the place

1660
01:26:18,410 --> 01:26:16,500
I mean Phoenix lights it's really

1661
01:26:20,540 --> 01:26:18,420
interesting that was a relatively small

1662
01:26:23,450 --> 01:26:20,550
sighting of orange roars but it was the

1663
01:26:28,729 --> 01:26:23,460
one of the first they got much publicity

1664
01:26:30,320 --> 01:26:28,739
but I mean these things they show up now

1665
01:26:32,959 --> 01:26:30,330
when there's thousands of people

1666
01:26:34,580 --> 01:26:32,969
watching the fireworks display as soon

1667
01:26:37,850 --> 01:26:34,590
as the fireworks were over they come out

1668
01:26:41,359 --> 01:26:37,860
so they've been seen by huge crowds and

1669
01:26:43,939 --> 01:26:41,369
if you know if anybody who's listening

1670
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:43,949
wants to see what an orange orb looks

1671
01:26:51,669 --> 01:26:48,090
like go on YouTube Google orange or

1672
01:26:54,830 --> 01:26:51,679
videos and you can see about 500 of them

1673
01:26:56,359 --> 01:26:54,840
mm-hmm they are everywhere it's not like

1674
01:27:00,500 --> 01:26:56,369
you know you have to be somebody special

1675
01:27:02,780 --> 01:27:00,510
to see an orange or video and they're

1676
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:02,790
there everywhere because they have been

1677
01:27:08,510 --> 01:27:05,610
seen everywhere they're there all over

1678
01:27:12,160 --> 01:27:08,520
the place all over the world though like

1679
01:27:15,530 --> 01:27:12,170
mosquitoes really they're everywhere

1680
01:27:17,870 --> 01:27:15,540
yeah one question comes to mind has

1681
01:27:22,399 --> 01:27:17,880
anyone ever reported any sounds with

1682
01:27:24,919 --> 01:27:22,409
these would not always say that there's

1683
01:27:27,169 --> 01:27:24,929
some they are that's what's eerie about

1684
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:27,179
them that's what was unsettling to me

1685
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:29,610
you know I'm accustomed having been a

1686
01:27:33,859 --> 01:27:31,290
pilot I'm accustomed to hearing noise

1687
01:27:36,169 --> 01:27:33,869
you know Jets made a lot of noise and

1688
01:27:38,570 --> 01:27:36,179
some of the helicopters mm-hmm but these

1689
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:38,580
things gliding long being absolutely

1690
01:27:45,109 --> 01:27:40,850
silent that to me that's the eerie thing

1691
01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:45,119
about them yeah I agree I mean that was

1692
01:27:51,620 --> 01:27:49,050
my sighting and I had no idea that any

1693
01:27:53,209 --> 01:27:51,630
of them would have been quiet or you

1694
01:27:56,000 --> 01:27:53,219
know no sound at all and I think that's

1695
01:27:57,560 --> 01:27:56,010
the thing that spooked me the most when

1696
01:28:00,200 --> 01:27:57,570
I wasn't really even paying attention to

1697
01:28:02,540 --> 01:28:00,210
UFOs I had a sighting and kind of woke

1698
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:02,550
me up to it yeah right

1699
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:03,330
well

1700
01:28:08,540 --> 01:28:06,570
one thing I'll say about I said the I

1701
01:28:11,180 --> 01:28:08,550
think these beings are trying to get us

1702
01:28:13,250 --> 01:28:11,190
used to to not be afraid of them because

1703
01:28:15,890 --> 01:28:13,260
you know if you introduce something into

1704
01:28:17,540 --> 01:28:15,900
a culture too quickly you can

1705
01:28:20,780 --> 01:28:17,550
disintegrate the culture you know it's

1706
01:28:23,180 --> 01:28:20,790
happened to many of the primitive tribes

1707
01:28:25,850 --> 01:28:23,190
in the Amazon and the South Pacific when

1708
01:28:27,710 --> 01:28:25,860
you know Margaret Meads first started

1709
01:28:30,860 --> 01:28:27,720
doing her investigations down there and

1710
01:28:32,510 --> 01:28:30,870
she introduced modern technology and it

1711
01:28:36,370 --> 01:28:32,520
just totally destroyed their culture

1712
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:36,380
because everything they believed in just

1713
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:40,170
was decimated by these new realizations

1714
01:28:44,380 --> 01:28:42,810
and I'm sure these people who are flying

1715
01:28:47,060 --> 01:28:44,390
these orange orbs have done this

1716
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:47,070
hundreds maybe thousands of times to

1717
01:28:52,390 --> 01:28:49,530
other planets and I think this is just

1718
01:28:58,970 --> 01:28:52,400
part of their plan how you acclimate a

1719
01:29:00,440 --> 01:28:58,980
group of people to to in to introduce

1720
01:29:03,350 --> 01:29:00,450
yourself to them without destroying

1721
01:29:05,420 --> 01:29:03,360
their culture now you do it very slowly

1722
01:29:07,930 --> 01:29:05,430
and you don't frighten them and I think

1723
01:29:10,820 --> 01:29:07,940
that's up that's what they're doing and

1724
01:29:14,450 --> 01:29:10,830
one thing I want to mention they they

1725
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:14,460
have not engaged in any violence and

1726
01:29:19,580 --> 01:29:16,730
they have certainly had the opportunity

1727
01:29:21,740 --> 01:29:19,590
they have been chased by jets that you

1728
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:21,750
know chased by helicopters and they

1729
01:29:28,460 --> 01:29:25,890
always just peacefully leave and here's

1730
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:28,470
I'll tell you something that indicates

1731
01:29:33,470 --> 01:29:29,970
to me that they don't want to fight with

1732
01:29:36,110 --> 01:29:33,480
us I told you they they appear in the

1733
01:29:38,780 --> 01:29:36,120
populated areas mostly because that's

1734
01:29:41,030 --> 01:29:38,790
where the people are there's only one

1735
01:29:44,150 --> 01:29:41,040
large metropolitan area where they have

1736
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:44,160
orange orbs have never appeared never

1737
01:29:51,380 --> 01:29:48,210
Washington DC right yeah I read your

1738
01:29:53,300 --> 01:29:51,390
book yeah and the reason is and okay

1739
01:29:57,440 --> 01:29:53,310
Martin what's the reason

1740
01:30:01,100 --> 01:29:57,450
oh because of all the defense system

1741
01:30:03,850 --> 01:30:01,110
right right ever since 9/11 that's the

1742
01:30:06,410 --> 01:30:03,860
most heavily guarded city in the world

1743
01:30:09,140 --> 01:30:06,420
there are thousands of surface their

1744
01:30:11,180 --> 01:30:09,150
missiles around the city

1745
01:30:14,300 --> 01:30:11,190
you've got Andrews Air Force Base with

1746
01:30:16,810 --> 01:30:14,310
fighter jets ready to go at any second

1747
01:30:20,739 --> 01:30:16,820
and these people know that

1748
01:30:23,750 --> 01:30:20,749
and they're not going to provoke a war

1749
01:30:28,129 --> 01:30:23,760
which is what would happen if they flew

1750
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:28,139
over you know after 9/11 if they flew

1751
01:30:34,729 --> 01:30:31,530
over Washington DC right now there would

1752
01:30:36,410 --> 01:30:34,739
be you know 500 missiles aimed at them

1753
01:30:41,419 --> 01:30:36,420
well do they show up on the radar as far

1754
01:30:47,149 --> 01:30:41,429
as you know I don't know I don't know

1755
01:30:51,310 --> 01:30:47,159
about orange herbs none of the cases I

1756
01:30:53,959 --> 01:30:51,320
read had any any radar information on it

1757
01:30:56,330 --> 01:30:53,969
all right one of the things we're we're

1758
01:30:58,250 --> 01:30:56,340
let's see where we are moving along now

1759
01:31:00,080 --> 01:30:58,260
we have a half hour left and I don't

1760
01:31:03,189 --> 01:31:00,090
want to leave this to last we were going

1761
01:31:05,709 --> 01:31:03,199
to talk about valid UFO evidence right

1762
01:31:09,410 --> 01:31:05,719
yes I

1763
01:31:14,330 --> 01:31:09,420
one of the major criticisms I've had of

1764
01:31:16,759 --> 01:31:14,340
my book is that I will I will say I will

1765
01:31:19,069 --> 01:31:16,769
hear from a number of field

1766
01:31:20,450 --> 01:31:19,079
investigators have said this to me so do

1767
01:31:22,549 --> 01:31:20,460
you have an interesting book but you

1768
01:31:25,759 --> 01:31:22,559
don't have any real evidence there all

1769
01:31:29,569 --> 01:31:25,769
you have is you know eyewitness

1770
01:31:32,290 --> 01:31:29,579
testimony and that's not evidence I beg

1771
01:31:37,850 --> 01:31:35,089
having been a trial lawyer for over 10

1772
01:31:41,089 --> 01:31:37,860
years I can tell you that

1773
01:31:46,759 --> 01:31:41,099
eyewitness testimony has put people to

1774
01:31:50,359 --> 01:31:46,769
death courts our legal system highly

1775
01:31:53,989 --> 01:31:50,369
values eyewitness testimony and as a

1776
01:31:56,930 --> 01:31:53,999
matter of fact in most cases like in

1777
01:31:59,899 --> 01:31:56,940
most criminal cases the the main

1778
01:32:02,209 --> 01:31:59,909
testimony in the trial is eyewitness

1779
01:32:06,140 --> 01:32:02,219
testimony let's say there are a group of

1780
01:32:10,479 --> 01:32:06,150
20 people let's see a guy shoot another

1781
01:32:13,189 --> 01:32:10,489
guy they bring in all 20 those people

1782
01:32:14,540 --> 01:32:13,199
they ask my 10 and they identify the

1783
01:32:16,850 --> 01:32:14,550
person that shot the man yeah they

1784
01:32:20,540 --> 01:32:16,860
pointed to a defendant tell us what

1785
01:32:23,209 --> 01:32:20,550
happened they tell them what happened if

1786
01:32:24,910 --> 01:32:23,219
those are credible witnesses and you

1787
01:32:26,959 --> 01:32:24,920
know the credibility is established by

1788
01:32:28,250 --> 01:32:26,969
cross-examination and the defense

1789
01:32:30,540 --> 01:32:28,260
attorney is going to try to rip them

1790
01:32:32,850 --> 01:32:30,550
apart but if the jury believed

1791
01:32:35,270 --> 01:32:32,860
that those witnesses are be incredible

1792
01:32:38,370 --> 01:32:35,280
they could very well find that man

1793
01:32:40,500 --> 01:32:38,380
guilty of first-degree murder and the

1794
01:32:43,350 --> 01:32:40,510
judge could very well sentence that man

1795
01:32:45,930 --> 01:32:43,360
to death that's all on eyewitness

1796
01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:45,940
testimony it's funny I had that argument

1797
01:32:52,310 --> 01:32:50,770
with Seth Shostak from SETI and you know

1798
01:32:55,620 --> 01:32:52,320
I asked him what about the credible

1799
01:32:57,270 --> 01:32:55,630
eyewitness accounts of observers like

1800
01:32:59,339 --> 01:32:57,280
astronauts and things like that and he

1801
01:33:02,189 --> 01:32:59,349
went right into a tirade basically

1802
01:33:05,189 --> 01:33:02,199
saying that eyewitness testimony is

1803
01:33:08,129 --> 01:33:05,199
never used as as very weak evidence and

1804
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:08,139
never used as solid evidence in a court

1805
01:33:18,419 --> 01:33:14,770
of law that's that's funny he apparently

1806
01:33:20,069 --> 01:33:18,429
has never been in a trial that's I mean

1807
01:33:23,310 --> 01:33:20,079
what what do you think all these

1808
01:33:26,250 --> 01:33:23,320
witnesses are understand - do you know

1809
01:33:28,879 --> 01:33:26,260
they're up there telling the jury what

1810
01:33:31,970 --> 01:33:28,889
they saw what they heard what they smell

1811
01:33:36,060 --> 01:33:31,980
what the man looked like what he did

1812
01:33:39,770 --> 01:33:36,070
that's the backbone of it of a criminal

1813
01:33:44,280 --> 01:33:39,780
trial is eyewitness testimony and the

1814
01:33:46,979 --> 01:33:44,290
our legal justice system considers I

1815
01:33:50,120 --> 01:33:46,989
witness testimony if it is credible to

1816
01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:50,130
be enough to convict someone possibly

1817
01:33:57,689 --> 01:33:52,090
sentence them to death or put them away

1818
01:34:01,260 --> 01:33:57,699
for life and mouflon won't even accept

1819
01:34:02,750 --> 01:34:01,270
it as credible witness to establish a

1820
01:34:07,770 --> 01:34:02,760
UFO was there

1821
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:07,780
that is ridiculous hmm if you think

1822
01:34:14,339 --> 01:34:11,770
about it you know so what are they what

1823
01:34:17,549 --> 01:34:14,349
are they asking for more more witnesses

1824
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:17,559
or it's as I said there's my there's a

1825
01:34:22,260 --> 01:34:20,050
mindset and move on yeah well I want to

1826
01:34:26,100 --> 01:34:22,270
see something real like okay what's real

1827
01:34:30,060 --> 01:34:26,110
you know well oil samples radar you know

1828
01:34:32,450 --> 01:34:30,070
yeah you have that and you know trial

1829
01:34:37,140 --> 01:34:32,460
sometimes you have ballistics testimony

1830
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:37,150
fired fingerprint testimony whatever but

1831
01:34:44,100 --> 01:34:40,690
you you also have a great deal of

1832
01:34:48,950 --> 01:34:44,110
eyewitness testimony and you know

1833
01:34:51,750 --> 01:34:48,960
legal system is willing to test I

1834
01:34:55,189 --> 01:34:51,760
witness testimony be beyond a reasonable

1835
01:34:59,729 --> 01:34:55,199
doubt to come to a conviction good lord

1836
01:35:02,700 --> 01:34:59,739
we we as members of MUFON can't judge

1837
01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:02,710
the credibility of eyewitness testimony

1838
01:35:06,149 --> 01:35:04,690
and come to a reasonable conclusion as

1839
01:35:10,439 --> 01:35:06,159
whether or not it's credible and

1840
01:35:13,350 --> 01:35:10,449
therefore good evidence so are you

1841
01:35:17,100 --> 01:35:13,360
saying basically that MUFON is is being

1842
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:17,110
more cautious than or like a good old

1843
01:35:23,729 --> 01:35:21,130
boys club a little of both they're not

1844
01:35:25,649 --> 01:35:23,739
being to me it's not rational I mean

1845
01:35:27,209 --> 01:35:25,659
anybody who knows anything about

1846
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:27,219
eyewitness testimony

1847
01:35:35,609 --> 01:35:30,610
you know our legal system knows that it

1848
01:35:36,660 --> 01:35:35,619
is you know the backbone of evidence in

1849
01:35:39,270 --> 01:35:36,670
a criminal trial

1850
01:35:41,820 --> 01:35:39,280
any kind of trial I remember I had Bruce

1851
01:35:44,490 --> 01:35:41,830
Maccabee on not not the last time he was

1852
01:35:47,340 --> 01:35:44,500
on but the time first time he was on and

1853
01:35:49,649 --> 01:35:47,350
I asked him about how strong his

1854
01:35:52,859 --> 01:35:49,659
photographic evidence and he says well

1855
01:35:56,550 --> 01:35:52,869
it has to be coupled with a really good

1856
01:35:58,169 --> 01:35:56,560
witness you know testimony so you know

1857
01:36:03,090 --> 01:35:58,179
it's it's no that's a contradiction

1858
01:36:05,459 --> 01:36:03,100
right there you know he's gonna trust

1859
01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:05,469
the eyewitness testimony concerning the

1860
01:36:12,450 --> 01:36:08,650
photo but he wanna trust I witness

1861
01:36:13,770 --> 01:36:12,460
testimony to testify you know to what he

1862
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:13,780
saw two different people

1863
01:36:19,020 --> 01:36:16,690
oh yeah yeah now I'm talking about Bruce

1864
01:36:21,359 --> 01:36:19,030
Maccabee the photo analyst yeah right

1865
01:36:24,649 --> 01:36:21,369
yeah he and the other person I was

1866
01:36:27,450 --> 01:36:24,659
talking about was from SETI Friday yeah

1867
01:36:30,359 --> 01:36:27,460
Bruce Maccabee was saying that besides

1868
01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:30,369
the photo or video whatever it is he's

1869
01:36:36,750 --> 01:36:34,449
researching that you have it means

1870
01:36:41,459 --> 01:36:36,760
really nothing unless the witnesses is

1871
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:41,469
strong okay so he is giving value to a

1872
01:36:46,830 --> 01:36:44,530
witness yes okay I mean yeah just think

1873
01:36:48,419 --> 01:36:46,840
about it let's say this fourth of July

1874
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:48,429
people turn out all over the place

1875
01:36:55,750 --> 01:36:51,010
through these hotspots just to see where

1876
01:36:57,879 --> 01:36:55,760
in Georgia and you know and in one place

1877
01:37:03,209 --> 01:36:57,889
1800 people say they saw the orange orbs

1878
01:37:06,069 --> 01:37:03,219
okay and someone investigates this and

1879
01:37:07,810 --> 01:37:06,079
basically all they have are 1500 people

1880
01:37:11,470 --> 01:37:07,820
all telling exactly the same story

1881
01:37:14,669 --> 01:37:11,480
they're gonna discount that because it's

1882
01:37:18,790 --> 01:37:14,679
eyewitness testimony please what better

1883
01:37:19,959 --> 01:37:18,800
proof could you have than 1500 people

1884
01:37:21,939 --> 01:37:19,969
coming up with the exact same

1885
01:37:25,089 --> 01:37:21,949
description of the same thing that's

1886
01:37:26,979 --> 01:37:25,099
very very credible and and you know a

1887
01:37:29,770 --> 01:37:26,989
reasonable person should be able to

1888
01:37:34,029 --> 01:37:29,780
conclude that that is a fact as to what

1889
01:37:35,830 --> 01:37:34,039
happened which is what juries do and now

1890
01:37:39,399 --> 01:37:35,840
we're really missing the boat and MUFON

1891
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:39,409
by having a very unrealistic standard

1892
01:37:46,509 --> 01:37:41,090
when it comes to eyewitness testimony

1893
01:37:52,240 --> 01:37:46,519
they think it's worthless wow I had no

1894
01:37:55,689 --> 01:37:52,250
idea that Stan was being taken yeah oh

1895
01:37:57,790 --> 01:37:55,699
yeah hear it all the time yeah you hear

1896
01:38:00,129 --> 01:37:57,800
well yeah well that's what he said but I

1897
01:38:08,140 --> 01:38:00,139
want to see some real evidence what do

1898
01:38:12,729 --> 01:38:08,150
you mean it's one of the best forms of

1899
01:38:15,430 --> 01:38:12,739
evidence that we have in any situation

1900
01:38:17,319 --> 01:38:15,440
you know police officer goes out and he

1901
01:38:20,229 --> 01:38:17,329
starts asking people what did you see

1902
01:38:22,899 --> 01:38:20,239
right you know he's trying to get a

1903
01:38:26,529 --> 01:38:22,909
picture of you know from eyewitnesses

1904
01:38:29,799 --> 01:38:26,539
what happened no not not to get off

1905
01:38:32,620 --> 01:38:29,809
topic too far yep but Tinley Park do you

1906
01:38:36,609 --> 01:38:32,630
happen to know of that situation which

1907
01:38:42,779 --> 01:38:36,619
was when we park in Chicago I was at a

1908
01:38:46,419 --> 01:38:42,789
building where the was no this was this

1909
01:38:48,669 --> 01:38:46,429
during a baseball game and stuff like

1910
01:38:50,830 --> 01:38:48,679
that but there were it was a massive

1911
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:50,840
sighting but I was wondering I was

1912
01:38:54,609 --> 01:38:52,730
thinking that was orange orbs but it may

1913
01:38:58,029 --> 01:38:54,619
not have been and that's why I'm saying

1914
01:38:59,140 --> 01:38:58,039
I might be getting off top I don't

1915
01:39:02,049 --> 01:38:59,150
remember

1916
01:39:04,839 --> 01:39:02,059
but was it a sporting event I think it

1917
01:39:08,169 --> 01:39:04,849
was but this went on for for quite some

1918
01:39:09,549 --> 01:39:08,179
time I think it's a started but anyway

1919
01:39:11,770 --> 01:39:09,559
we were talking

1920
01:39:13,569 --> 01:39:11,780
you said earlier about if you anyone

1921
01:39:15,699 --> 01:39:13,579
wants to see orange orbs go on to

1922
01:39:17,199 --> 01:39:15,709
YouTube and you'll see a bunch of them

1923
01:39:19,599 --> 01:39:17,209
and some of them you know I have watched

1924
01:39:22,929 --> 01:39:19,609
a number of them myself some of them are

1925
01:39:25,419 --> 01:39:22,939
very plain to see that they're Chinese

1926
01:39:28,449 --> 01:39:25,429
lanterns and yeah and some aren't and

1927
01:39:31,629 --> 01:39:28,459
the frustration of Chinese lanterns is

1928
01:39:34,149 --> 01:39:31,639
pretty high and as far as investigators

1929
01:39:36,729 --> 01:39:34,159
I can understand why you know sort of

1930
01:39:38,759 --> 01:39:36,739
understand why people say you know pass

1931
01:39:41,379 --> 01:39:38,769
it off as lens because it is frustrating

1932
01:39:42,759 --> 01:39:41,389
well if they know the characteristics

1933
01:39:44,529 --> 01:39:42,769
that's one of the reasons I think my

1934
01:39:46,899 --> 01:39:44,539
book has made such a big difference if

1935
01:39:50,469 --> 01:39:46,909
you know the characteristics of orange

1936
01:39:52,509 --> 01:39:50,479
orbs you would not mistake it for a

1937
01:39:56,379 --> 01:39:52,519
Chinese lantern and it's the same thing

1938
01:39:58,809 --> 01:39:56,389
go for flares as well sure these layers

1939
01:40:00,159 --> 01:39:58,819
have a certain you know if they're shot

1940
01:40:01,750 --> 01:40:00,169
from the ground they have a certain

1941
01:40:03,989 --> 01:40:01,760
trajectory they go up and they go down

1942
01:40:06,729 --> 01:40:03,999
you know if they're dropped from the air

1943
01:40:09,129 --> 01:40:06,739
it's the same thing there's there's a

1944
01:40:10,959 --> 01:40:09,139
certain behavior of flares and there's a

1945
01:40:13,389 --> 01:40:10,969
certain behavior of orbs in there it

1946
01:40:16,329 --> 01:40:13,399
they are not at all alike they're

1947
01:40:19,209 --> 01:40:16,339
totally different first of all you know

1948
01:40:22,029 --> 01:40:19,219
they they can they fly against the wind

1949
01:40:24,339 --> 01:40:22,039
frequently know a Chinese letter and

1950
01:40:25,809 --> 01:40:24,349
can't do that right you know so there

1951
01:40:29,729 --> 01:40:25,819
are things you can look at where you can

1952
01:40:37,029 --> 01:40:33,899
you know that I brought up that argument

1953
01:40:38,679 --> 01:40:37,039
to someone one time and they said well

1954
01:40:40,599 --> 01:40:38,689
you know you get to different altitudes

1955
01:40:42,879 --> 01:40:40,609
and there's different wind currents and

1956
01:40:46,689 --> 01:40:42,889
those they go in different directions I

1957
01:40:50,290 --> 01:40:46,699
don't know if that's true or not well

1958
01:40:52,359 --> 01:40:50,300
yeah but that's the usually the upper

1959
01:40:57,669 --> 01:40:52,369
air I mean yeah you have the high

1960
01:41:00,549 --> 01:40:57,679
altitude wind currents but you know

1961
01:41:03,279 --> 01:41:00,559
that's you're talking up you know 40 50

1962
01:41:07,750 --> 01:41:03,289
thousand feet yeah where they have these

1963
01:41:10,569 --> 01:41:07,760
dramatic shifts not a hundred feet all

1964
01:41:13,809 --> 01:41:10,579
right a question sort of came up on the

1965
01:41:15,729 --> 01:41:13,819
message board and that is you're pretty

1966
01:41:17,949 --> 01:41:15,739
outspoken when it comes to MUFON but

1967
01:41:20,199 --> 01:41:17,959
you're in MUFON how do you get a lock

1968
01:41:23,850 --> 01:41:20,209
for that or or people just know you as

1969
01:41:23,860 --> 01:41:29,910
well I'm an outspoken period you know

1970
01:41:34,450 --> 01:41:32,530
I'm a product of my grandmother my

1971
01:41:37,030 --> 01:41:34,460
grandmother always taught me good ones

1972
01:41:39,610 --> 01:41:37,040
when you see something speak your mind

1973
01:41:41,470 --> 01:41:39,620
Tina if you have something to say speak

1974
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:41,480
your mind you always used to say it to

1975
01:41:46,540 --> 01:41:43,610
me and that's what I do I let the chips

1976
01:41:48,550 --> 01:41:46,550
fall you know I try to I try to speak

1977
01:41:50,250 --> 01:41:48,560
the truth you know what I know to be the

1978
01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:50,260
truth and if someone doesn't like it

1979
01:41:55,210 --> 01:41:53,210
it's not my problem the whole truth and

1980
01:41:56,380 --> 01:41:55,220
nothing but the truth right yeah if you

1981
01:41:57,400 --> 01:41:56,390
if you're telling the truth you

1982
01:42:02,560 --> 01:41:57,410
shouldn't worry about it

1983
01:42:05,200 --> 01:42:02,570
I agree and but how do they view you

1984
01:42:07,450 --> 01:42:05,210
with them with your attitude I mean do

1985
01:42:12,100 --> 01:42:07,460
they they just they live with it or have

1986
01:42:18,070 --> 01:42:12,110
you been threatened at all some say he's

1987
01:42:21,340 --> 01:42:18,080
the crackpot you know but there are the

1988
01:42:24,490 --> 01:42:21,350
younger field investigators tend to be

1989
01:42:30,700 --> 01:42:24,500
much more open-minded about these things

1990
01:42:33,670 --> 01:42:30,710
you know and toward me those who have

1991
01:42:35,830 --> 01:42:33,680
been around forever and you know I think

1992
01:42:36,820 --> 01:42:35,840
they have it all worked out they don't

1993
01:42:39,760 --> 01:42:36,830
like that

1994
01:42:43,170 --> 01:42:39,770
you know I don't agree with their point

1995
01:42:45,940 --> 01:42:43,180
of view and I have a new point of view

1996
01:42:49,320 --> 01:42:45,950
it's just probably just the passing down

1997
01:42:54,100 --> 01:42:49,330
of you know like an old-school attitude

1998
01:42:56,229 --> 01:42:54,110
absolutely that's what it is yeah let's

1999
01:42:59,110 --> 01:42:56,239
see so we pretty much covered the valid

2000
01:43:01,150 --> 01:42:59,120
UFO evidence how about let's let's touch

2001
01:43:04,120 --> 01:43:01,160
on another year the stories are

2002
01:43:08,640 --> 01:43:04,130
interesting hear any any other one can

2003
01:43:16,420 --> 01:43:14,979
there was one over the there this had

2004
01:43:22,420 --> 01:43:16,430
been seen a number of times that this

2005
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:22,430
one was going over it was out in LA and

2006
01:43:29,860 --> 01:43:27,410
it was you know there are you familiar

2007
01:43:32,620 --> 01:43:29,870
with Los Angeles oh yeah you know

2008
01:43:34,630 --> 01:43:32,630
there's I think it's interstate 10 is

2009
01:43:35,229 --> 01:43:34,640
the big one goes north and south one of

2010
01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:35,239
them anyway

2011
01:43:41,170 --> 01:43:39,290
this is right near LA and a that there

2012
01:43:41,979 --> 01:43:41,180
was this thing that stopped all the

2013
01:43:44,440 --> 01:43:41,989
traffic

2014
01:43:48,479 --> 01:43:44,450
all right on the freeway it was just

2015
01:43:55,590 --> 01:43:48,489
before an overpass and there was a

2016
01:44:00,910 --> 01:43:55,600
sphere with a being inside of it that

2017
01:44:05,200 --> 01:44:00,920
look was sort of walking in like walking

2018
01:44:06,820 --> 01:44:05,210
in the sphere but making it move it was

2019
01:44:09,040 --> 01:44:06,830
one that one of the bigger ones you know

2020
01:44:11,860 --> 01:44:09,050
one of the taller ones but it's like

2021
01:44:14,860 --> 01:44:11,870
yours I've seen pictures of these big

2022
01:44:15,910 --> 01:44:14,870
balloons people climb inside and they

2023
01:44:17,800 --> 01:44:15,920
float on water

2024
01:44:19,870 --> 01:44:17,810
I don't you ever seen or not they blow

2025
01:44:22,870 --> 01:44:19,880
up thing a lot of people said it looked

2026
01:44:25,570 --> 01:44:22,880
a lot like that but they said the it was

2027
01:44:28,750 --> 01:44:25,580
the person the thing the being was

2028
01:44:31,390 --> 01:44:28,760
making the really awkward movements as

2029
01:44:33,550 --> 01:44:31,400
it was doing this but it was enough it

2030
01:44:38,979 --> 01:44:33,560
walk you know went the whole way across

2031
01:44:40,990 --> 01:44:38,989
you know like six lanes of you know the

2032
01:44:44,950 --> 01:44:41,000
highway probably with the 105 or

2033
01:44:46,780 --> 01:44:44,960
something good be could be I don't know

2034
01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:46,790
I don't remember the exact I don't

2035
01:44:52,209 --> 01:44:50,090
remember what route it was anyway it

2036
01:44:55,300 --> 01:44:52,219
went all the way across and then just

2037
01:44:58,479 --> 01:44:55,310
disappear but that hit that thing is

2038
01:45:00,729 --> 01:44:58,489
that image has been seen a number of

2039
01:45:02,770 --> 01:45:00,739
times there's I don't know if it's like

2040
01:45:05,740 --> 01:45:02,780
a toy for the kids or you know I don't

2041
01:45:11,860 --> 01:45:05,750
know what it is it almost looks like

2042
01:45:13,900 --> 01:45:11,870
that like it's something that you know

2043
01:45:15,760 --> 01:45:13,910
something they they are the kids driving

2044
01:45:20,650 --> 01:45:15,770
appearance nuts inside the orange orbs

2045
01:45:22,660 --> 01:45:20,660
and they send them out really describe

2046
01:45:25,420 --> 01:45:22,670
what they're doing actually another

2047
01:45:26,709 --> 01:45:25,430
thing too with some orange orbs there

2048
01:45:28,360 --> 01:45:26,719
are the strangest little things

2049
01:45:30,729 --> 01:45:28,370
sometimes the orange orb is up there and

2050
01:45:35,020 --> 01:45:30,739
you will see it looks like a little tiny

2051
01:45:36,850 --> 01:45:35,030
orb is coming down it looks like there's

2052
01:45:39,490 --> 01:45:36,860
a little almost like a string attached

2053
01:45:42,310 --> 01:45:39,500
to it but several of them they'll come

2054
01:45:45,220 --> 01:45:42,320
down and they'll go back up again almost

2055
01:45:48,020 --> 01:45:45,230
like yeah I'm saying I'm thinking you

2056
01:45:50,060 --> 01:45:48,030
know what that looks like like parents

2057
01:45:51,500 --> 01:45:50,070
I'm using a kid you know they're putting

2058
01:45:53,839 --> 01:45:51,510
them in a little warp and letting go up

2059
01:45:55,100 --> 01:45:53,849
and down honest to god

2060
01:45:57,140 --> 01:45:55,110
that's what it looks like to me when I

2061
01:45:59,660 --> 01:45:57,150
see that yeah you see there are a number

2062
01:46:03,140 --> 01:45:59,670
of actually filmed sightings that you

2063
01:46:04,819 --> 01:46:03,150
see this little like some people think

2064
01:46:06,919 --> 01:46:04,829
it might be like a drone or a probe that

2065
01:46:07,729 --> 01:46:06,929
comes out of you know this vehicle or

2066
01:46:10,520 --> 01:46:07,739
whatever it is

2067
01:46:12,589 --> 01:46:10,530
yeah it's really pretty fascinating yeah

2068
01:46:15,470 --> 01:46:12,599
question couple of questions up on the

2069
01:46:17,089 --> 01:46:15,480
message board what is the what do you

2070
01:46:22,700 --> 01:46:17,099
consider the best case the most

2071
01:46:25,419 --> 01:46:22,710
compelling unimpeachable oh boy I don't

2072
01:46:27,770 --> 01:46:25,429
know if there's one best case because

2073
01:46:31,540 --> 01:46:27,780
there are so many different or there are

2074
01:46:35,450 --> 01:46:31,550
best cases in a lot of different areas

2075
01:46:38,299 --> 01:46:35,460
the one I found really fascinating there

2076
01:46:42,100 --> 01:46:38,309
was only one of them was we're talking

2077
01:46:46,819 --> 01:46:42,110
about how we're talking about wormholes

2078
01:46:48,529 --> 01:46:46,829
and how they could get here instantly

2079
01:46:52,069 --> 01:46:48,539
rather than taking a million years to do

2080
01:46:54,200 --> 01:46:52,079
it by bending space I found one case and

2081
01:46:58,399 --> 01:46:54,210
it's right near the end of my book where

2082
01:47:00,770 --> 01:46:58,409
a woman is describing something and if

2083
01:47:03,290 --> 01:47:00,780
you if you know anything about what a

2084
01:47:06,740 --> 01:47:03,300
wormhole is supposed to look like the

2085
01:47:09,339 --> 01:47:06,750
way Einstein described it this is a

2086
01:47:14,029 --> 01:47:09,349
perfect description of a vehicle

2087
01:47:16,430 --> 01:47:14,039
dropping out of a wormhole hmm it's

2088
01:47:19,010 --> 01:47:16,440
absolutely fascinating I mean and this

2089
01:47:20,740 --> 01:47:19,020
was not a really well-educated woman and

2090
01:47:23,290 --> 01:47:20,750
I was just she I think she was like

2091
01:47:25,760 --> 01:47:23,300
cafeteria worker or something like that

2092
01:47:29,870 --> 01:47:25,770
nothing against cafeteria workers but it

2093
01:47:32,240 --> 01:47:29,880
wasn't like she was some PhD type anyway

2094
01:47:35,359 --> 01:47:32,250
she was just describing this and and I

2095
01:47:37,970 --> 01:47:35,369
don't think she's read about Einstein

2096
01:47:41,120 --> 01:47:37,980
and wormholes to try to incorporate that

2097
01:47:43,040 --> 01:47:41,130
into a story but her description is a

2098
01:47:45,379 --> 01:47:43,050
perfect description of a vehicle

2099
01:47:48,140 --> 01:47:45,389
dropping out of a wormhole and then

2100
01:47:52,750 --> 01:47:48,150
wormhole closing up Wow

2101
01:47:56,540 --> 01:47:52,760
just we have I think it looks like maybe

2102
01:47:59,779 --> 01:47:56,550
eight minutes or so left so a couple of

2103
01:48:01,760 --> 01:47:59,789
questions you seemed pretty convinced

2104
01:48:05,920 --> 01:48:01,770
this is off the message board

2105
01:48:08,360 --> 01:48:05,930
that they are alien craft without using

2106
01:48:13,550 --> 01:48:08,370
those words what made you come to that

2107
01:48:17,330 --> 01:48:13,560
conclusion well based upon my life

2108
01:48:20,540 --> 01:48:17,340
experience and based upon my career is a

2109
01:48:23,060 --> 01:48:20,550
military pilot I have a pretty good idea

2110
01:48:25,280 --> 01:48:23,070
as to what it takes to fly something and

2111
01:48:28,660 --> 01:48:25,290
everything we have is flown with an

2112
01:48:31,070 --> 01:48:28,670
airfoil you know which means you have

2113
01:48:32,660 --> 01:48:31,080
more pressure under the wing that's why

2114
01:48:35,780 --> 01:48:32,670
wings are curved you have more pressure

2115
01:48:38,510 --> 01:48:35,790
you know the venturi principle and so

2116
01:48:42,340 --> 01:48:38,520
when an airplane makes a turn it has to

2117
01:48:45,200 --> 01:48:42,350
make a banked round turn to keep enough

2118
01:48:47,470 --> 01:48:45,210
lift under its wings that's what we have

2119
01:48:50,570 --> 01:48:47,480
and a helicopter is the same thing the

2120
01:48:52,670 --> 01:48:50,580
the helicopter blades are basically a

2121
01:48:55,310 --> 01:48:52,680
wing spinning around and that's what

2122
01:49:00,590 --> 01:48:55,320
pulls it up so it's all based upon

2123
01:49:07,000 --> 01:49:00,600
airfoil these orange herbs do not use

2124
01:49:09,380 --> 01:49:07,010
air foils they they they are clearly

2125
01:49:11,980 --> 01:49:09,390
anti-gravity they have an anti-gravity

2126
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:11,990
mechanism that keeps them up there

2127
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:18,090
without any visible means of being up

2128
01:49:23,540 --> 01:49:20,970
there you know they are just floating up

2129
01:49:24,650 --> 01:49:23,550
there and they are under intelligent

2130
01:49:28,700 --> 01:49:24,660
control

2131
01:49:30,260 --> 01:49:28,710
they make 90-degree turns and they can

2132
01:49:32,870 --> 01:49:30,270
make them in an instant there is

2133
01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:32,880
absolutely nothing on earth that can

2134
01:49:40,010 --> 01:49:36,090
make a 90-degree turn at a high speed

2135
01:49:42,110 --> 01:49:40,020
right it's impossible with how we slide

2136
01:49:43,550 --> 01:49:42,120
things it doesn't matter if it's a drone

2137
01:49:44,030 --> 01:49:43,560
or not I mean anything would just fall

2138
01:49:47,530 --> 01:49:44,040
apart

2139
01:49:53,690 --> 01:49:47,540
really well would you couldn't do it you

2140
01:49:54,860 --> 01:49:53,700
cannot we would have physically first of

2141
01:49:57,500 --> 01:49:54,870
all you couldn't do it an airplane

2142
01:49:59,300 --> 01:49:57,510
airplane turns are always curved they

2143
01:50:01,550 --> 01:49:59,310
have to be yeah well you fall out of the

2144
01:50:03,920 --> 01:50:01,560
sky you get a wing stall you follow this

2145
01:50:07,820 --> 01:50:03,930
guy helicopters can make 90-degree turns

2146
01:50:09,170 --> 01:50:07,830
but they have to stop and do it you know

2147
01:50:12,710 --> 01:50:09,180
you have to come to a stop make your

2148
01:50:15,590 --> 01:50:12,720
turn and go 90 degrees but these things

2149
01:50:20,690 --> 01:50:15,600
turn instantly and they can also

2150
01:50:23,630 --> 01:50:20,700
they can move at a rate of speed that we

2151
01:50:24,980 --> 01:50:23,640
would never dream of moving they can go

2152
01:50:27,080 --> 01:50:24,990
from one point in the sky

2153
01:50:33,590 --> 01:50:27,090
to another point of sky maybe 20 miles

2154
01:50:35,270 --> 01:50:33,600
away in a tenth of a second now weakness

2155
01:50:35,840 --> 01:50:35,280
we can't even dream about doing that

2156
01:50:39,170 --> 01:50:35,850
right now

2157
01:50:43,190 --> 01:50:39,180
so I mean the answer to your caller is

2158
01:50:47,330 --> 01:50:43,200
there there's nothing that we can do

2159
01:50:51,800 --> 01:50:47,340
that can do that so it has to be made

2160
01:50:55,220 --> 01:50:51,810
somewhere else than on earth yeah I mean

2161
01:50:59,330 --> 01:50:55,230
that's in my opinion the most logical I

2162
01:51:03,320 --> 01:50:59,340
would have to say now you mentioned

2163
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:03,330
earlier about one particular case where

2164
01:51:09,590 --> 01:51:06,570
there was more or less an abduction are

2165
01:51:11,750 --> 01:51:09,600
there other cases that talk about these

2166
01:51:15,430 --> 01:51:11,760
orange orbs and abductions or was that

2167
01:51:20,510 --> 01:51:15,440
kind of an atypical situation they

2168
01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:20,520
rarely abduct there are only a few cases

2169
01:51:26,600 --> 01:51:24,690
with abductions and none of them lead

2170
01:51:31,330 --> 01:51:26,610
men these two hunters that were taken

2171
01:51:34,280 --> 01:51:31,340
onboard this craft they were as I said

2172
01:51:36,290 --> 01:51:34,290
treated to disgusting behavior as they

2173
01:51:38,570 --> 01:51:36,300
described it they didn't go into detail

2174
01:51:40,040 --> 01:51:38,580
I don't think they wanted to anyway they

2175
01:51:42,020 --> 01:51:40,050
were they were treated in a way they

2176
01:51:45,650 --> 01:51:42,030
found disgusting and nauseating but they

2177
01:51:51,820 --> 01:51:45,660
they weren't harmed in any way and no

2178
01:51:54,650 --> 01:51:51,830
one has been taken and not returned so

2179
01:51:57,950 --> 01:51:54,660
but they're not I don't think they're I

2180
01:52:00,130 --> 01:51:57,960
think they're the beings that are

2181
01:52:03,620 --> 01:52:00,140
operating these things I think are past

2182
01:52:06,340 --> 01:52:03,630
the investigative stage where they want

2183
01:52:09,020 --> 01:52:06,350
to abduct people and do experiments and

2184
01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:09,030
you know study our botany I think

2185
01:52:15,500 --> 01:52:12,570
they're past that and I think right now

2186
01:52:18,260 --> 01:52:15,510
they're there they're dealing in

2187
01:52:21,140 --> 01:52:18,270
psychological games right now because I

2188
01:52:23,300 --> 01:52:21,150
think they've decided that we are have

2189
01:52:24,950 --> 01:52:23,310
reached the stage where we in our

2190
01:52:28,310 --> 01:52:24,960
development that they can safely

2191
01:52:29,370 --> 01:52:28,320
integrate onto earth without totally

2192
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:29,380
destroying our

2193
01:52:37,260 --> 01:52:34,330
our civilization so I don't think they

2194
01:52:40,050 --> 01:52:37,270
need to abduct anymore okay

2195
01:52:41,910 --> 01:52:40,060
I'm not sure exactly oh I think we got

2196
01:52:45,510 --> 01:52:41,920
four or five minutes here I want to ask

2197
01:52:48,270 --> 01:52:45,520
you also can you describe the occupants

2198
01:52:50,070 --> 01:52:48,280
in more detail I mean did people say I

2199
01:52:51,570 --> 01:52:50,080
know you talked about the suits or

2200
01:52:53,460 --> 01:52:51,580
whatever they appear to be wearing but

2201
01:52:59,430 --> 01:52:53,470
what about there the head shapes the

2202
01:53:03,390 --> 01:52:59,440
eyes thing yeah with the bangs

2203
01:53:05,090 --> 01:53:03,400
their heads were only they they they are

2204
01:53:08,010 --> 01:53:05,100
described as having a very human face

2205
01:53:10,980 --> 01:53:08,020
just slightly different their heads are

2206
01:53:15,120 --> 01:53:10,990
a little bit bigger than ours a little

2207
01:53:17,190 --> 01:53:15,130
bit more elongated but very similar to

2208
01:53:20,160 --> 01:53:17,200
the shape of a head and there they say

2209
01:53:23,490 --> 01:53:20,170
their eyes are exactly like human eyes

2210
01:53:25,860 --> 01:53:23,500
they're just bigger you know they're not

2211
01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:25,870
these you know off you can see pictures

2212
01:53:30,750 --> 01:53:28,090
of these slants almost oriental looking

2213
01:53:34,560 --> 01:53:30,760
eyes or something in picture just trying

2214
01:53:37,050 --> 01:53:34,570
whatever that's not what the that's not

2215
01:53:40,890 --> 01:53:37,060
what the witnesses are saying they're

2216
01:53:46,470 --> 01:53:40,900
saying their eyes look quite human but

2217
01:53:51,510 --> 01:53:46,480
they're just larger and they're they

2218
01:53:55,890 --> 01:53:51,520
have small noses no apparent ears and

2219
01:53:59,700 --> 01:53:55,900
very small mouths but they're they are

2220
01:54:01,770 --> 01:53:59,710
not like these people you know they say

2221
01:54:04,070 --> 01:54:01,780
they look like lizards or whatever all

2222
01:54:07,140 --> 01:54:04,080
these people sure don't they could they

2223
01:54:10,200 --> 01:54:07,150
most most witnesses describe them as

2224
01:54:13,920 --> 01:54:10,210
being very human looking well

2225
01:54:16,710 --> 01:54:13,930
interesting what about hair that's an

2226
01:54:18,000 --> 01:54:16,720
interesting situation a lot of people

2227
01:54:21,030 --> 01:54:18,010
have described there that there's

2228
01:54:22,830 --> 01:54:21,040
something but with the adults there's

2229
01:54:25,920 --> 01:54:22,840
something on their head

2230
01:54:29,370 --> 01:54:25,930
the there it's either hair or like a

2231
01:54:33,120 --> 01:54:29,380
flap of skin we toured the back of it

2232
01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:33,130
that sort of hangs a lot a lot of people

2233
01:54:38,070 --> 01:54:36,010
said that and they don't describe it as

2234
01:54:39,510 --> 01:54:38,080
hair they say you could at first it

2235
01:54:42,719 --> 01:54:39,520
looks like here but then you see it's

2236
01:54:45,330 --> 01:54:42,729
like skin or something then Oh

2237
01:54:47,759 --> 01:54:45,340
that's all I can tell you if they're not

2238
01:54:50,100 --> 01:54:47,769
describing in his hair it can appear

2239
01:54:52,259 --> 01:54:50,110
from a distance but up close it's more

2240
01:54:54,540 --> 01:54:52,269
like skin hanging down Wow

2241
01:54:57,509 --> 01:54:54,550
and the littler the smaller ones are

2242
01:55:01,649 --> 01:54:57,519
they very similar to the two the big

2243
01:55:06,799 --> 01:55:01,659
ones well they're not there they're not

2244
01:55:10,229 --> 01:55:06,809
as muscular looking it's almost like I

2245
01:55:13,439 --> 01:55:10,239
think of an adult male but you know

2246
01:55:16,140 --> 01:55:13,449
who's in good shape you know tall

2247
01:55:18,930 --> 01:55:16,150
muscular a kid's gonna be a little pudgy

2248
01:55:20,459 --> 01:55:18,940
here you know yeah and a softer looking

2249
01:55:22,290 --> 01:55:20,469
and that's how they're described they're

2250
01:55:25,589 --> 01:55:22,300
you know they're soft thing softer

2251
01:55:27,870 --> 01:55:25,599
looking creatures look by kids they've

2252
01:55:30,029 --> 01:55:27,880
childish all right well hey thanks so

2253
01:55:31,890 --> 01:55:30,039
much it's it's been a real real pleasure

2254
01:55:37,080 --> 01:55:31,900
speaking to you this evening

2255
01:55:42,330 --> 01:55:37,090
okay yes and you can find his book on

2256
01:55:46,890 --> 01:55:42,340
Amazon so I want to move on and move on

2257
01:55:48,060 --> 01:55:46,900
that's where yeah first you go yes all

2258
01:55:49,620 --> 01:55:48,070
right all right

2259
01:55:51,439 --> 01:55:49,630
so I want to thank everyone for helping

2260
01:55:55,709 --> 01:55:51,449
out with a show today Alejandro Rojas

2261
01:55:59,520 --> 01:55:55,719
for our news early on we want to thank

2262
01:56:01,439 --> 01:55:59,530
our guests Terry ray and Carrie Lloyd

2263
01:56:03,750 --> 01:56:01,449
Whitehouse and Bruce Renier for our

2264
01:56:05,520 --> 01:56:03,760
music Peggy shining for managing our

2265
01:56:08,250 --> 01:56:05,530
Facebook page and remember to like us on

2266
01:56:10,799 --> 01:56:08,260
Facebook for all the latest UFO news we

2267
01:56:12,660 --> 01:56:10,809
have dr. Leo sprinkle and old-time

2268
01:56:14,520 --> 01:56:12,670
investigators going to be on next week

2269
01:56:17,430 --> 01:56:14,530
you can check us out here live and

2270
01:56:19,199 --> 01:56:17,440
listen to the whole show at 8 p.m. to 10

2271
01:56:20,669 --> 01:56:19,209
p.m. Eastern Standard Time this is

2272
01:56:22,830 --> 01:56:20,679
Martyn Willis and that's Wednesday that